Boston1477
New Member, Must Send First!
I have a box of Stickwork coming in, I sure hope nothing is damaged, that's a very discouraging response from Leaf
Leaf Replacement Policy... WTF
- Thread starter tkmullin
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SNobles
Patrick Roy BTP Collector,
Both have been active on the boards as of yesterday and today according to their profiles.
Not that they have to respond but I do find it interesting they are choosing not to comment on this one.
I know when I open a pack of cards I am looking for a solid 8 in quality. Way to set that bar high on quality control.
scooby1970
Purveyor of Lush,
Maybe they are trying to contact the customer service rep and are waiting to see what was said
I'm not sticking for leaf believe me I called them out on some stuff but after expo it shows me how much love Brian has for the hobby. I'm sure he will make it right
But as for grading I wouldn't trust any grades that Beckett gives after hearing people from Beckett grading would give a higher grade depending if you want to spend more for the grading. Now that's shady business for our hobby
NJDEVILS30
Verified Trader,
"Top-graded cards are identifiable at a glance thanks to Beckett Grading Services' premium-colored labels. A gold label on the front of the unique cardholder signifies the highest graded cards (9.5-10). A silver label graces cards graded 8.5 to 9. Cards in all other grades are identified with a distinctive and attractive white label."
You're telling me that something brand new, out of a pack of Leaf, is only guaranteed to be in "white label" condition?
Come on, guys, you have got to be kidding with that policy.
You're telling me that something brand new, out of a pack of Leaf, is only guaranteed to be in "white label" condition?
Come on, guys, you have got to be kidding with that policy.
Orca Pod
Bitter, Jaded & Disillusioned!,
Nice response to the guy that has purchased about 8,256,798 ITG/Leaf MAF cards over the years.
Sure makes you want to continue purchasing their product, right?
Sure makes you want to continue purchasing their product, right?
TanguayFan
Verified Trader,
Let's give them the benefit of the doubt guys. For all we know, the CSR is completely unaware of grading standards. Considering the level of handling that a card receives before it is actually opened by a customer, an 8 is a perfectly acceptable standard. If they guaranteed a PSA 8, nobody would bat an eyelash. The only thing that I see wrong with the CSR's response is their assertion that it would grade BGS 8. Despite the fact that grading is a complete and utter scam (as evidenced by the BGS slabbed Koivu pictured above), based on what BGS would have the public believe, there is no way that card should grade an 8....the surface should receive a 6 tops.
will-411
Verified Trader,
What year of ITG Ultimate was it that was graded? I recall the population reports on the autograph jersey and patches littered with7.0s and 7.5s.
I do think the concept of the policy they are proposing is acceptable, but the execution and reality leaves a lot to be desired. They might as well grade them all before packaging and throw out any that are less than 8.0.
I do think the concept of the policy they are proposing is acceptable, but the execution and reality leaves a lot to be desired. They might as well grade them all before packaging and throw out any that are less than 8.0.
LeafCeo
Upstanding Member , Leaf Trading Cards
So... I have a damaged card from 2015 ITG Superlative... there are two creased clearly visible... as you can see.
I sent an email to Customer Service and this is their response.
"After reviewing the image you sent, it does not appear that this card would grade lower than an 8 with BGS. A BGS 8 MT-NRMT is our guarantee, which would not allow a replacement.
If you would like to send the card back to the address below, we can take it to Beckett for you as a courtesy and have them review it."
Am I wrong to be upset with this? I mean... WTF.
Please allow me to clarify our policy, we guarantee that all cards will grade nrmt-mt (BGS 8) or better in original Leaf/ITG products.
While many of our competitors set that standard at NRMT (BGS 7), we have set our minimum standard above this bar.
Now, on your particular card, we have a former Beckett Grading Employee on staff. I would venture a guess CS showed him the card and he believes it will come back at or above our minimum grade of 8.
If you disagree, you may send us the card. We will have Beckett RCR the card and will replace it if it does not grade BGS 8. If it does, we will return the card to you in a BGS RCR graded holder.
I believe this is the most fair policy in the business.
If you want to discuss this, you can call 214-519-1078.
That is my personal cell number.
Brian Gray,
leaf CEO
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
LeafCeo
Upstanding Member , Leaf Trading Cards
penguinfan
Verified Trader,
I could almost see guaranteeing an 8.5...but an 8 would not even get you the same as a raw w/o visable flawsIs there a better grader out there?
LeafCeo
Upstanding Member , Leaf Trading Cards
Did you know the other companies don't even guarantee an 8?
As technology on cards increases (especially foil), cards are harder and harder to grade high (leading to premiums for grading)..
B
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
foley2k
Verified Trader
Instead of sending it to beckett (having a former emplyee of beckett grading seems to be a conflict of interest to me), how about sending it off to PSA instead?
jaugus
Verified Trader,
Brian
Not sure the replacement card was worth how much this card dropped in value
Had a McDavid Auto 13/25 out of 2014 Draft Prospects. The auto sticker was folded on one end. I asked them for a replacement. Same BS you got. If you want to send and it grades an 8 then they have done their job. They they said they would send me a card to offset the loss of value (they called it a good will gesture) and sent me a $20 Lafleur jersey card. Not nearly worth what I could of gotten for a clean McDavid auto.
tkmullin
Verified Trader,
It appears from the replies in the thread that I'm not alone in my thoughts. Regardless if the card grades an 8 or not... IT'S CLEARLY DAMAGED.
This is an insert card from a "High End" product (ITG Superlative)... not a regular base card. The definition of Superlative is: "expressing the highest or a very high degree of a quality". I don't see this being the case with this card or with the explanation of how you decide which cards are replaced and which aren't.
Brian - I appreciate the fact that you want to chat about this, but unless the outcome is a replacement, it's not worth the time to chat. The amount of money I've spent on ITG/Leaf cards over the years is staggering... and to think that I would keep a damaged card in my collection is unheard of.
I'll find another one to replace this one at some point... but I really shouldn't have to.
Thanks for everyone's time and comments.
This is an insert card from a "High End" product (ITG Superlative)... not a regular base card. The definition of Superlative is: "expressing the highest or a very high degree of a quality". I don't see this being the case with this card or with the explanation of how you decide which cards are replaced and which aren't.
Brian - I appreciate the fact that you want to chat about this, but unless the outcome is a replacement, it's not worth the time to chat. The amount of money I've spent on ITG/Leaf cards over the years is staggering... and to think that I would keep a damaged card in my collection is unheard of.
I'll find another one to replace this one at some point... but I really shouldn't have to.
Thanks for everyone's time and comments.
FrozenInferno
Resident Bluenoser, Verified Trader,
That was really early on, one of the first releases back in the early 2000's if I recall.
bamlinden
Upstanding Member,
Not to raise a stink or anything, but I was wondering if the OP could clarify something for me?
Was this card pack pulled by you or purchased in the secondary market?
If it was purchased in the secondary market, was the damaged apparent prior to purchase (I'm assuming not).
I only ask because I once had a damaged card back in the day and was given no real option for compensation because I bought it from an online seller and not the company that produced the card.
Thanks for your time. I hope the issue gets rectified in a manner that you approve of.
Was this card pack pulled by you or purchased in the secondary market?
If it was purchased in the secondary market, was the damaged apparent prior to purchase (I'm assuming not).
I only ask because I once had a damaged card back in the day and was given no real option for compensation because I bought it from an online seller and not the company that produced the card.
Thanks for your time. I hope the issue gets rectified in a manner that you approve of.
sdpdesign
Registered Trader ,
After reading all of these points and LeafCEO response, I can say that they are trying to set a good standard.
How quick do we forget the foil debacle of last year's YG from UD, where all they said was "eh...variant". How many packs have you opened that had dinged corners?
I believe retailers have some stake in their products selling but can return it to 'get their $ back for a defective product" from the original company, which Leaf/ITG is.
Leaf/ITG have to hold their ground to a point. The whole point of ITG's product fiasco was to purge product that was for replacement because we, as a group, are very picky and want perfection. (Leaf liquidated smartly, ridding the old stock to the collectors rather than another company like Pinnacle/Score.) Leaf has a production run and sticking to it, stating that no cards will be produced past the original product run. UD has done this with adding printing plates into their products, mainly The CUP.
I can see both sides, as a collector, and as a person who has a lot of business sense. I am not one too quick to jump the gun on returns, but I also don't purchase such expensive product on a regular basis. I actually have veered away from ITG/Leaf since the merger, partly since I'm a little cautious, partly due to lack of availability in my area, partly not liking the products that much...yet.
On the specific card in question...yeah it sucks to get this in this condition. (Bam, I believe he got it from the pack like this.) I think that the problem is with QC to actually sign off on this condition of the card as an 8 on a new product. Graded cards are scrutinized to a point where if a 1/1 can't be rated a 10 as "the only representation of that cards in any condition"...and what does it matter if it isn't a 10...it is its ONLY version!!! hence the 1/1!!!...ahem, if they were graded properly, this new card would be near a 6 with a visual defect, not an 8.
It is like the nards kick meme that they used for UD over the last few years.
...look at me, ranting off again.:duh:
How quick do we forget the foil debacle of last year's YG from UD, where all they said was "eh...variant". How many packs have you opened that had dinged corners?
I believe retailers have some stake in their products selling but can return it to 'get their $ back for a defective product" from the original company, which Leaf/ITG is.
Leaf/ITG have to hold their ground to a point. The whole point of ITG's product fiasco was to purge product that was for replacement because we, as a group, are very picky and want perfection. (Leaf liquidated smartly, ridding the old stock to the collectors rather than another company like Pinnacle/Score.) Leaf has a production run and sticking to it, stating that no cards will be produced past the original product run. UD has done this with adding printing plates into their products, mainly The CUP.
I can see both sides, as a collector, and as a person who has a lot of business sense. I am not one too quick to jump the gun on returns, but I also don't purchase such expensive product on a regular basis. I actually have veered away from ITG/Leaf since the merger, partly since I'm a little cautious, partly due to lack of availability in my area, partly not liking the products that much...yet.
On the specific card in question...yeah it sucks to get this in this condition. (Bam, I believe he got it from the pack like this.) I think that the problem is with QC to actually sign off on this condition of the card as an 8 on a new product. Graded cards are scrutinized to a point where if a 1/1 can't be rated a 10 as "the only representation of that cards in any condition"...and what does it matter if it isn't a 10...it is its ONLY version!!! hence the 1/1!!!...ahem, if they were graded properly, this new card would be near a 6 with a visual defect, not an 8.
It is like the nards kick meme that they used for UD over the last few years.
...look at me, ranting off again.:duh:
RGM81
Verified Trader
I know that collectors everywhere dream of getting cards out of their box breaks that are in such good shape that they'll spend a premium to ensure that they get slabbed and protected as an 8 forever. You see it all the time, people posting their submission results with all those amazing graded 8 cards.
Sometimes I lay awake at night dreaming of showing off my graded 8 cards to my friends.
Sometimes I lay awake at night dreaming of showing off my graded 8 cards to my friends.
slappy69
Verified Trader,
I know the OP is a great member here, but in this case sorry you are going after the wrong party. The card was bought on Ebay and even with my bad eyes I can see the damage on the card. You should get a refund back from the seller since they should have listed the card being damaged.
Bossy22
Verified Trader,
I have bought cards that were damaged without knowing it. I never thought about the company. It's the breaks, I check a little more carefully for a while anyways.
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