Patch forger... caught! gomaz would be proud ;)

TanguayFan said:
Thousands? I haven't seen anything that would indicate thousands. I haven't even seen anything that would indicate hundreds. Heck, there's less than ten examples in this thread.
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He has almost 500 feedbacks between the 2 eBay sites, he's been using but he also has others, but he hasn't used it in a while. He's unloaded a TON (hundreds) of cards to other dealers... who have unknowingly sold fake patches whether at shows, their stores and eBay accounts. There's also people who also bought alot of cards privately from him as well. There are also a ton of people, who thru other people have cards that are fake from this guy as well. I've seen a few thisfake patcher had his hands on that are in people's pc as we speak and they don't even know.

He's taken quite a few people....it's not just the half dozen or so cards that are the proof in the beginning of the post. Those are the ones they got before and after pics of.
 
MGiuseffi1969 said:
How is UD sweeping this under the rug?
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Honestly UD supposedly resolved their redemption problem when they were handing out pamphlets and their CEO or who ever that was goes on and acknowledges that there is a HUGE problem....but it's going to be resolved with some sort of program!!!!
Go check Marks reasons for maybe giving upon the hobby and see that all these issues have been ongoing for years. Doesn't seem that they done too much to lately in terms of these problems as well. As far as I'm concerned having an UD rep come here and say we'll check it out kinda concerns me only because they don't have the greatest track record when it involves issues they should be concerned with. I've lost the faith long ago....but I am keeping my fingers crossed!!!

I'm really hoping you're right and they do something here and I'm wrong!!!
 
TanguayFan said:
Thousands? I haven't seen anything that would indicate thousands. I haven't even seen anything that would indicate hundreds. Heck, there's less than ten examples in this thread.
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i personally know he has been faking these cards for at least 15 months........yes 1000's
 
deankal said:
Honestly UD supposedly resolved their redemption problem when they were handing out pamphlets and their CEO or who ever that was goes on and acknowledges that there is a HUGE problem....but it's going to be resolved with some sort of program!!!!
Go check Marks reasons for maybe giving upon the hobby and see that all these issues have been ongoing for years. Doesn't seem that they done too much to lately in terms of these problems as well. As far as I'm concerned having an UD rep come here and say we'll check it out kinda concerns me only because they don't have the greatest track record when it involves issues they should be concerned with. I've lost the faith long ago....but I am keeping my fingers crossed!!!

I'm really hoping you're right and they do something here and I'm wrong!!!
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Nice rant. I give it a B+. I understand your frustrations with UD, and the hobby in general. We all share your concerns. In regards to your initial post, I was simply asking the question of how UD was sweeping THIS issue under the rug?
 
Perhaps another way to put this:

As Geoff/geplimestone said, this particular faker has been at work for at least a year. With how many dozens/hundreds of faked patches out there. The faker has been at work long enough, quietly enough that many of these have been worked into the system and are going to be very tough indeed to pry out of the hobby - if at all. There is now a large segment of the hobby faithful who will view excellent patch swatches with a suspicious eye - and that's going to hurt.

It is much the way that the subprime mortgage debacle has infected every part of the financial markets. It went on long enough, quietly enough that by the time it was uncovered nothing was safe from the repercussions.
 
quincy said:
Perhaps another way to put this:

As Geoff/geplimestone said, this particular faker has been at work for at least a year. With how many dozens/hundreds of faked patches out there. The faker has been at work long enough, quietly enough that many of these have been worked into the system and are going to be very tough indeed to pry out of the hobby - if at all. There is now a large segment of the hobby faithful who will view excellent patch swatches with a suspicious eye - and that's going to hurt.

It is much the way that the subprime mortgage debacle has infected every part of the financial markets. It went on long enough, quietly enough that by the time it was uncovered nothing was safe from the repercussions.
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Well said Steve. This is big trouble for Upper Deck, similar to how the subprime debacle was/is for the financial giants of the world.
 
gomaz said:
I just thought of a great idea!!

I volunteer to go to UD's pack-out or patch-assembly facility and take pictures with my digital camera of every patch card in this year's Cup.

Yes!! I will bring my own camera, will pay my way and will even buy the low-wage workers lunch one of the days.

I am willing to be searched on my way in, and out. I will also sign an NDA if desired.

I will then pay the costs to host these images on a web site. I will then add some encryption to ensure that the images are not henceforth tampered with and obviously let your IT guys scrutinize this aspect.

How does that sound UD? No labour. No digital storage fees or issues. No new technology. And your workers get a free lunch.

Let me add that this is not a joke. Give me the go-ahead. Tell me when and where and I will come and do this on my own time and dime as a service to the hobby that I love.

And I promise not to let my camera, nor my fingers, touch the cards.

Whaddaya say UD?

EDIT - As it may be too late for this year's Cup, my offer stands for next season's release of UD Black, SPA, OPCP and Cup.
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HA HA

Let me know when you land in LA. I will pick you up and we can go together.
 
Well, there are so many things wrong with some of the responses in this thread, that I am just going to step back before I give myself even more of a headache than I have right now. I will say this (and this just my humble opinion, take it for what you will).....sad to say, but the years that I have into this hobby have shown me one thing....if it comes down to aesthetics vs authenticity, 99% of people out there would choose aesthetics.
 
TanguayFan said:
Well, there are so many things wrong with some of the responses in this thread, that I am just going to step back before I give myself even more of a headache than I have right now. I will say this (and this just my humble opinion, take it for what you will).....sad to say, but the years that I have into this hobby have shown me one thing....if it comes down to aesthetics vs authenticity, 99% of people out there would choose aesthetics.
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I have one of the better The Cup rookie patch collections with many unique looking patches and I do have to say if I had to choose I'd rather be in the 1% authentic side!!! I may even forget about doing this years rookie crop from The Cup because of this mess with the fake patches!! If I do decide on doing it I may change my way of thinking and just do a 3clr set instead of chasing the more unique looking swatches.
 
webernaslundco said:
hi there .

well this gets more disturbing that someone knew for that long makes them just as corrupt in my eyes , i'll add geplimstone to the list of people i won't trade with .

jason
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I think he had run-ins with Kao and hnic rather than doing this patch faking thing together......Bruce knows I think?
I think alot of us knew and had suspicions of him as there was no way one person can have that many patches, but I can also tell you that he's definitely done a heck of A LOT of fake patching!!!
 
deankal said:
I think he had run-ins with Kao and hnic rather than doing this patch faking thing together......Bruce knows I think?
I think alot of us knew and had suspicions of him as there was no way one person can have that many patches, but I can also tell you that he's definitely done a heck of A LOT of fake patching!!!
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Having suspicions, and then finally being able to prove them, is a major difference. I don't have any concern that Geoff was neither involved nor knowledgeable about this member's forging specifically.

We finally had the proof to "out" him. That's the bottom line.
 
The hobby seems to be losing its joy for many people. How long before enough customers are alienated and UD (the only game in town, in this case) finally takes action?
 
TanguayFan said:
I'm still trying to figure out why all of a sudden this has become such a hot button topic. Don't get me wrong, I understand the implications that this has on the hobby. But why all the hullabaloo now? Jeremy has been working tirelessly for ages now cataloguing patches to identify things like this, and many HI members have been doing similar things behind the scene. We've had countless discussions on here about known fake patches. Yet looking at the responses in this thread, with numerous members talking about leaving the hobby, you'd swear that this is the first time this has surfaced. Is it because the party in question was a member of HI? Otherwise, I'd hate to think that so many members had their head in the sand about this issue. That kind of naiveity would be truly disappointing.
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EXACTLY!! That is also why I find it amusing that people say "wait and see what Upper Deck might do". They have had years to do something and they haven't. I don't care what Topps, Donruss, Paninninninini (did i miss any I's?), or any other card company does...I collect hockey, and Upper Deck makes hockey cards (and we are in the hockey forum :) )
 
TanguayFan said:
I'm still trying to figure out why all of a sudden this has become such a hot button topic.
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While this has been going on for awhile, I always thought a fake really stood out and I would notice it or others more knowledgeable would be quick to point it out. But recently, I have seen 2 threads started about potential fake patches that turned out to be legit. The most recent was a thread started by Q. The cards he referenced looked "fake" to many of us, but then we were told with certainty they were legit. Upper Deck actually did a nice job with many of the 07/08 Cup Limited Logos and it totally screwed up everything!
 
THERUSSIANRCKT said:
While this has been going on for awhile, I always thought a fake really stood out and I would notice it or others more knowledgeable would be quick to point it out. But recently, I have seen 2 threads started about potential fake patches that turned out to be legit. The most recent was a thread started by Q. The cards he referenced looked "fake" to many of us, but then we were told with certainty they were legit. Upper Deck actually did a nice job with many of the 07/08 Cup Limited Logos and it totally screwed up everything!
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I also think that people seeing the "before & after" pictures really makes it hit home, that it's not just something intangible and unknown; now people can actually see patch forging in the firsthand. Honestly, it was shocking to me to find the first one and put it up to the original.
 
TanguayFan said:
I'm still trying to figure out why all of a sudden this has become such a hot button topic. Don't get me wrong, I understand the implications that this has on the hobby. But why all the hullabaloo now? Jeremy has been working tirelessly for ages now cataloguing patches to identify things like this, and many HI members have been doing similar things behind the scene. We've had countless discussions on here about known fake patches. Yet looking at the responses in this thread, with numerous members talking about leaving the hobby, you'd swear that this is the first time this has surfaced. Is it because the party in question was a member of HI? Otherwise, I'd hate to think that so many members had their head in the sand about this issue. That kind of naiveity would be truly disappointing.
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It's the scope of it Rob. One individual was on the hook for $2K worth of stuff from him (none of which was stuff posted in this thread). It goes much much deeper than just what's been posted and I'd venture deep into the tens of thousand of dollars worth if not more. There's also dealers in no less than 6 US and Canadian cities that would like to have words with him about the stuff that was dumped on them.

D
 
THERUSSIANRCKT said:
While this has been going on for awhile, I always thought a fake really stood out and I would notice it or others more knowledgeable would be quick to point it out. But recently, I have seen 2 threads started about potential fake patches that turned out to be legit. The most recent was a thread started by Q. The cards he referenced looked "fake" to many of us, but then we were told with certainty they were legit. Upper Deck actually did a nice job with many of the 07/08 Cup Limited Logos and it totally screwed up everything!
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I'd forgotten about that, but a great point. While I cheerfully accepted a helping of crow on that one, you're quite right: it nicely highlights the suspicion with which an outstanding patch card is viewed. That suspicion is ramped up a couple of notches in the wake of this particular expose.
 

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