Pronger getting better with age!

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sevenwings

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Well i thought i would start another discussion about all time best d-man.
Although I have never been a huge Pronger fan...actually the exact opposite. I have to admitt along with Lidstrom probably the best defenseman of my generation. All the guy does is go from team to team and then onto the Stanley Cup Finals. Perfect example is 31 plus minutes yesterday and the Eastern Conference Finals for the Flyers. If nothing else can be said the man wins wherever he goes.
 
Not sure how old you are, but Pronger the best of any generation is really a stretch in my opinion. Lidstrom, Bourque, MacInnis, Leetch, Stevens, Niedermeyer, even Phil Housley, I would put all of them ahead of Pronger. Just my opinion though.
 
I think some guy name Orr might be considered the best of all time. Others may say a guy named Harvey.

Pronger is a great player - he has even won the Hart but his best days are behind him. He is smart with the puck.
 
I think I just threw up a bit in my mouth! Pronger is a good defenseman but the best of or even top 5 of his era is a stretch. Only reason he has a cup is Niedermayer and a loaded Ducks team. During his good years he never got out of the second round of the playoffs. To me he's #1 cheapshot defenseman of his era though for his consolation prize!
 
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Pronger can't even crack the list of the top 10 defensman of the past 20 years.
For every really 3 or 4 great plays he makes - he has a tendancy to take the ill-timed penalty or the bad pinch. He has that great size - but not the speed to go with it.

As Trev says - he has been on some pretty goood team and not made them that much better. He is a horse and can play 30 minutes a game - but still makes the mistakes.

Lidstrom Niedermayer Bourque Leetch McINNES Stevens to name a few, and I would probably be more inclined to go with Doughty & Weber as the new challangers.



As far as All-Time, I just do not know how you can compare Harvey's period to Orr's to Lidstrom's. Heck I'm 54 and I cannot really rememebr Harvey playing in the NHL. How can I possibly judge him???
Orr is un-questionably the best OFFENSIVE defensman ever in the NHL - he revolutionized the role of the position. BUT he only had 7 stellar seasons before his knees gave out.
Lidstrom may forever be under-rated (hard to even say that) - because he made plays so effortlessly, and his positioning was so good that he never LOOKED he was working hard. And he has been that good for 18 seasons in the NHL!

Suffice it to say - these 3 players were the cream of the crop.
 
To me, he is a dirty Rob Blake, no better - no worse. Surely he is a great player and has had a damn good career - but he needn't be mentioned with the all time legends. I can't imagine a day where I am sitting down with my grandkids telling them about Chris Pronger.
Paul Coffey on the other hand...
 
Pronger is like wine gets better over time. but i agree with some of the other posts he isn't "the" best of all time. he is up there though

suitman19 said:
As far as All-Time, I just do not know how you can compare Harvey's period to Orr's to Lidstrom's. Heck I'm 54 and I cannot really rememebr Harvey playing in the NHL. How can I possibly judge him???
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that point is true. the equipment has also played a big role in this. Pad size/weight. sticks, skates...etc. like i was thinking the other day what if gretazky got drafted a few years ago would be as good as he was back in the day.
 
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timber09 said:
To me, he is a dirty Rob Blake, no better - no worse. Surely he is a great player and has had a damn good career - but he needn't be mentioned with the all time legends. I can't imagine a day where I am sitting down with my grandkids telling them about Chris Pronger.
Paul Coffey on the other hand...
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I'd say that's about the best comparison out there. Well done!
 
wait, if the guy makes it back to the finals with the Flyers thats the third team he has played for the cup with. And he has a Hart Trophy to boot. I dont think he is better then most named, but he IS damn good, and very worthy of top 10 of this generation.
 
hockeykid87 said:
Almost a PPG in the playoffs since 05-06. Pretty clutch player. His performance during the 06 run was unreal. Conn Smythe worthy
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His PPG has a lot to do with players he plays with. I'm not taking away that he is a good player but the original post was one of the best of his generation. That's what I would debate.
Also with every great play you can point out his screwups also. How about last years game 7 against the Wings when he left Cleary out alone in front of the net for the game winner with 3 min left! For all his great plays you can point out the bonehead ones that go with it. That's why he isn't one of the greatest. Good solid player but not great!
 
GrimUSMC said:
wait, if the guy makes it back to the finals with the Flyers thats the third team he has played for the cup with. And he has a Hart Trophy to boot. I dont think he is better then most named, but he IS damn good, and very worthy of top 10 of this generation.
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Probably the biggest travisty of giving out that award! Can you tell I hate Pronger! :D
 
wingnut888 said:
His PPG has a lot to do with players he plays with. I'm not taking away that he is a good player but the original post was one of the best of his generation. That's what I would debate.
Also with every great play you can point out his screwups also. How about last years game 7 against the Wings when he left Cleary out alone in front of the net for the game winner with 3 min left! For all his great plays you can point out the bonehead ones that go with it. That's why he isn't one of the greatest. Good solid player but not great!
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wingnut888 said:
Probably the biggest travisty of giving out that award! Can you tell I hate Pronger! :D
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Never would have guessed it, lol.
 
GrimUSMC said:
wait, if the guy makes it back to the finals with the Flyers thats the third team he has played for the cup with.
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You can say the exact same thing for Blake - if the Sharks make it to the finals - they are in the same position at the same time in their careers. Sure, no Hart for Blake but I think there is a real similar path for these two.
 
timber09 said:
You can say the exact same thing for Blake - if the Sharks make it to the finals - they are in the same position at the same time in their careers. Sure, no Hart for Blake but I think there is a real similar path for these two.
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The Hart Trophy is huge. Plus, Blake was not the dominant D-man on any of those cup teams, Pronger was.

And thats not to take anything away from Blake, he is also a great D-man. I just think hes a few notches below Pronger. Thats just my opinion. I would also love to see Blake in Orange and Black
 
Great Debate

I knew when i posted this comment that there would be many who disagree,
hey i dont like admitting it either but facts are facts. I can go down the line and point out the faults of all the other d-men mentioned, Stevens, Housley, Macginnis, Leetch, Bourque
etc... down the line none of them have switched teams like Pronger and then brought those teams to the stanley cup. Pronger leaves Edmonton they havent been the same , leaves the Ducks and yes with Neidermayer still there and they go down hill, I would assume leaves Philly and they to would end the same. Now Like I said to start im not a fan of Pronger in anyway and yes hes not as flashy or as polished as some other d-men but defense to me is more about presence than anything else.
 
sevenwings said:
I knew when i posted this comment that there would be many who disagree,
hey i dont like admitting it either but facts are facts. I can go down the line and point out the faults of all the other d-men mentioned, Stevens, Housley, Macginnis, Leetch, Bourque
etc... down the line none of them have switched teams like Pronger and then brought those teams to the stanley cup. Pronger leaves Edmonton they havent been the same , leaves the Ducks and yes with Neidermayer still there and they go down hill, I would assume leaves Philly and they to would end the same. Now Like I said to start im not a fan of Pronger in anyway and yes hes not as flashy or as polished as some other d-men but defense to me is more about presence than anything else.
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Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion. More power to you. I think all the negative comments about Pronger are because of who he is and the way he plays. It's a good debate as far as I'm concerned but my hatred of the guy comes into play..lol
 

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