Shill (bidding up/setting a reserve) on your own card?

[MTO4LIFE]

I came across this auction http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150495909585&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT and it got me wondering. I am the original owner and sold this card a ways back. Recently the card was moved again to acquire something else they wanted. I know as the then new(3rd) owner contacted me to see if I was interested in it, not knowing it was originally mine.

Now I see bsb-1 has it. This newest seller I know as I've seen them as local shows. I have also watched items they have had listed in the past and they always seem to end up back at their table. Most notably was the Dr.Price 72 card. I was interested in getting it, to get signed and slabbed for my pc. Anyway the owner had dollar signs in their eyes and puts it on the bay by bsb-1. Card "sells?" for 3x the original amount at the show. I emailed on e-bay and asked again at the next local show... did this card sell... to the answer yes. Only to see the owner of the 72 Price show up to the ITG booth at the very time I am speaking with Dr.Price. Their smile fades as mine surfaces when Brian tells them he no longer needs a copy.

So I guess after all this what I want to know is: Are they having a buddy bid up/set a reserve on this card? Is it right? Can this be stopped? If this card shows up at the next show... Should I stand in the middle of the room and call this person out? The card has only been listed a day with 6 days to go. I know who the current 2nd highest bidder is, they are a SCF member. But not sure who(bsb-1's buddy?) the high bidder is. I actually hope someone who wants the card and is happy to pay the price wins. But when I see cards supposedly sell, end up still at the dealers table over and over, it rubs me the wrong way.

Any thoughts, comments or opinions welcomed.

Sorry for the rant, thanks for your time and have a good day.

 

[rferrier]

Living off the 'bay for my collecting...Vernon just isn't a big market...go figure?

I agree this happens way too often! I know almost all the guys who bid on Vernon's yet there are occasionally these 'mystery' bidders who jack the prices up to the point I won't even buy it and low-and-behold the same card pops up a few months later for sale again.
Shame to these crooked sellers!

 

[hockeynet66]

Don't let it bother you that much. People can be so dramatic with this shill bidding/whatever you call it thing. Its the same as setting a reserve price. Enough with this "its making people pay more than their willing to" bs. No one puts a gun to anyones head saying "ENTER MORE!!". you put in the maximum amount you are WILLING TO PAY, and if thats good enough you get the card. No one should be complaining about paying "X" number of $ for a card when they themselves control the amount in which they bid. If no one goes over the top, then the seller keeps the card and makes no money, if he sells it, its cause someone agreed to pay that amount.

 

[JohnnyDrama]

Don't let it bother you that much. People can be so dramatic with this shill bidding/whatever you call it thing. Its the same as setting a reserve price. Enough with this "its making people pay more than their willing to" bs. No one puts a gun to anyones head saying "ENTER MORE!!". you put in the maximum amount you are WILLING TO PAY, and if thats good enough you get the card. No one should be complaining about paying "X" number of $ for a card when they themselves control the amount in which they bid. If no one goes over the top, then the seller keeps the card and makes no money, if he sells it, its cause someone agreed to pay that amount.

Except it's against ebay's TOS? If you want a reserve on it, you put a reserve on it. Bidding up your items is against the rules.

 

[sharks4life12]

Don't let it bother you that much. People can be so dramatic with this shill bidding/whatever you call it thing. Its the same as setting a reserve price. Enough with this "its making people pay more than their willing to" bs. No one puts a gun to anyones head saying "ENTER MORE!!". you put in the maximum amount you are WILLING TO PAY, and if thats good enough you get the card. No one should be complaining about paying "X" number of $ for a card when they themselves control the amount in which they bid. If no one goes over the top, then the seller keeps the card and makes no money, if he sells it, its cause someone agreed to pay that amount.

hmmm, i just dont know how to respond to this. i guess you are for shilling then?

 

[DogfoodSoup]

Don't let it bother you that much. People can be so dramatic with this shill bidding/whatever you call it thing. Its the same as setting a reserve price. Enough with this "its making people pay more than their willing to" bs. No one puts a gun to anyones head saying "ENTER MORE!!". you put in the maximum amount you are WILLING TO PAY, and if thats good enough you get the card. No one should be complaining about paying "X" number of $ for a card when they themselves control the amount in which they bid. If no one goes over the top, then the seller keeps the card and makes no money, if he sells it, its cause someone agreed to pay that amount.

That's all well and good if you lose a card to someone who actually wants it and isn't just bidding to run up your bid.

CRM

 

[jmatchett]

That's all well and good if you lose a card to someone who actually wants it and isn't just bidding to run up your bid.

CRM

I'm not for shilling, but it's called a "maximum" for a reason. I understand your point and all, but if you have a problem paying X for a card, then you shouldn't have gone that high. Also, it's impossible to prove if it was shilling or someone actually trying to win it.

 

[kmitchel]

Also, it's impossible to prove if it was shilling or someone actually trying to win it.

No, on many occasions - it's VERY easy to prove it's shilling. eBay just doesn't do anything about it.

 

[DogfoodSoup]

I'm not for shilling, but it's called a "maximum" for a reason. I understand your point and all, but if you have a problem paying X for a card, then you shouldn't have gone that high. Also, it's impossible to prove if it was shilling or someone actually trying to win it.

It's quite easy to prove in some cases, you just look at the bidders bid history with that particular seller. There's other ways but that's the simplest.

 

[kmitchel]

Considering HI has booted a known eBay auction shiller, I don't think many people on will condone attitudes of "it's alright, you were willing to pay that much"

 

[hockeynet66]

Considering HI has booted a known eBay auction shiller, I don't think many people on will condone attitudes of "it's alright, you were willing to pay that much"

No offense, but considering HI has booted a number of people for simply disagreeing with the wrong people, that doesn't hold water. This is a hobby and should be fun. The second it is not fun anymore, is when you stop. No where have I said I support, or agree with shill bidding. I just said its nothing to get all bent out of shape over, considering if you fall victim to it, you have no one to blame but yourself, since you and only you are the one who entered the bid.

 

[JohnnyDrama]

No offense, but considering HI has booted a number of people for simply disagreeing with the wrong people, that doesn't hold water. This is a hobby and should be fun. The second it is not fun anymore, is when you stop. No where have I said I support, or agree with shill bidding. I just said its nothing to get all bent out of shape over, considering if you fall victim to it, you have no one to blame but yourself, since you and only you are the one who entered the bid.

LOL. This is going to be a brief stay, methinks.

 

[sharks4life12]

No offense, but considering HI has booted a number of people for simply disagreeing with the wrong people, that doesn't hold water. This is a hobby and should be fun. The second it is not fun anymore, is when you stop. No where have I said I support, or agree with shill bidding. I just said its nothing to get all bent out of shape over, considering if you fall victim to it, you have no one to blame but yourself, since you and only you are the one who entered the bid.

please provide this proof . Ive never seen anyone get booted from the site for simply disagreeing with another member.

 

[spooner9ball]

I'm not for shilling, but it's called a "maximum" for a reason. I understand your point and all, but if you have a problem paying X for a card, then you shouldn't have gone that high. Also, it's impossible to prove if it was shilling or someone actually trying to win it.

No offense, but considering HI has booted a number of people for simply disagreeing with the wrong people, that doesn't hold water. This is a hobby and should be fun. The second it is not fun anymore, is when you stop. No where have I said I support, or agree with shill bidding. I just said its nothing to get all bent out of shape over, considering if you fall victim to it, you have no one to blame but yourself, since you and only you are the one who entered the bid.

Man, I remember the good ol' days when you could go on the Bay and possibly score a DEAL, with little or no interference from compulsive dirtbags.

There is a group of people involved in the little situation the OP speaks of; a group of guys who religiously watch each others auctions, "helping" them along on a fairly regular basis. Now, the seller doesn't always expect them to, but they are all mid-high end dealers, and if you are bidding on a card that they want a hundred for at the show, they make it near impossible to get it for any less.

On the flipside, I can understand how eBay would struggle with enforcing these issues, because Power Sellers indeed rack up regulars and repeat buyers. There are Favorite Sellers for a reason; some guys have great stuff all the time, and you want to check in on them. There are a couple guys who I bid on all the time, but they would never pick me out of a line-up.....

As far as the "HI has booted" comment, you seem to know a lot about their practices and have formed an opinion on the matter. Impressive considering you have 13 posts and haven't been here long. At least, under that name...... Just perpetuating the myth on ya, that's all.

 

[hockeynet66]

LOL. This is going to be a brief stay, methinks.

I don't see why this is causing drama. What I said is a fact. I also, said I've had very smooth transactions with the seller in question, however it is not a secret that some of these powersellers do bump each others auctions.

 

[hockeynet66]

Man, I remember the good ol' days when you could go on the Bay and possibly score a DEAL, with little or no interference from compulsive dirtbags.

There is a group of people involved in the little situation the OP speaks of; a group of guys who religiously watch each others auctions, "helping" them along on a fairly regular basis. Now, the seller doesn't always expect them to, but they are all mid-high end dealers, and if you are bidding on a card that they want a hundred for at the show, they make it near impossible to get it for any less.

This is what I am speaking of.

As far as the "HI has booted" comment, you seem to know a lot about their practices and have formed an opinion on the matter. Impressive considering you have 13 posts and haven't been here long. At least, under that name......

I've been around the hobby for years. I've run into a lot a people who have had both good and bad things to say about a number of different subjects, this being one of them. How is that an indictment on my character?

 

[spooner9ball]

No offense, but considering HI has booted a number of people for simply disagreeing with the wrong people, that doesn't hold water. This is a hobby and should be fun. The second it is not fun anymore, is when you stop. No where have I said I support, or agree with shill bidding. I just said its nothing to get all bent out of shape over, considering if you fall victim to it, you have no one to blame but yourself, since you and only you are the one who entered the bid.

One more thing on this point; some of the people from this merry band of men have already been removed permanently from this site for their attitudes on running up bids, and the close scrutiny of the HI community. Others don't dare come here for the same reason. That bucket holds tons of water.

 

[kmitchel]

Also, it's impossible to prove if it was shilling or someone actually trying to win it.

Here's one example - maybe it's not "proof" but it's pretty damning evidence

Grabner 62/299 - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...61674&_sacat=See-All-Categories&_fvi=1&_rdc=1

Ended on Aug 24 - 6:36 AM PST for $11.61 - winning bidder d***7 (private) -who has 75 bids all on this sellers items.

Card RELISTED at 6:45 AM that SAME day - 9 minutes later?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...63459&_sacat=See-All-Categories&_fvi=1&_rdc=1


Let's just say that if this isn't shilling, I'd be VERY suprised.

Kevin

 

[JohnnyDrama]

I don't see why this is causing drama. What I said is a fact. I also, said I've had very smooth transactions with the seller in question, however it is not a secret that some of these powersellers do bump each others auctions.

I'm guessing this since you've had posts deleted, you've trolled and are basically saying that shilling isn't a big deal since you set the high bid.

Again--it's obviously an issue when members have been banned here for being linked to shilling. Just sayin'.

 

[koondog44]

There are still "known shiller(s)" (or former shiller(s)) on this site, so saying they are banned on this site isn't true....although I feel they should be. Someone may have been banned for this, but I'm sure it wasn't the whole reason. I do agree that occasionally there are questionable suspensions at times (and LACK of suspensions to certain people), but I don't think there are to many questionable bannings.

Back to the topic...I don't think there is anything at all that can be done. Just walk away and wait for the card to pop up at YOUR price...not theirs.