chadsexington
Registered User
Me too. If they can just amend this policy to include jaywalkers, drunk people, and people who cross without looking both ways, we'd be in business.
Shill (bidding up/setting a reserve) on your own card?
- Thread starter MTO4LIFE
- Start date
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Me too. If they can just amend this policy to include jaywalkers, drunk people, and people who cross without looking both ways, we'd be in business.
shams99
New Member, Must Send First
I hate shill bidding but it is a factor till Ebay outlaws it by actually doing something about it. They won't because it increases final values and paypal fees.
I also think the saturation of the card market with many many products has caused a decrease in the value. People who rely on Ebay to pay bills etc have resorted to shill bidding amongst other things to maintain value. Not right.
Conclusion. Be a smart buyer. Do you research.
Shill bidders should be banned from this site and listed so it protects those who don't know.
I also think the saturation of the card market with many many products has caused a decrease in the value. People who rely on Ebay to pay bills etc have resorted to shill bidding amongst other things to maintain value. Not right.
Conclusion. Be a smart buyer. Do you research.
Shill bidders should be banned from this site and listed so it protects those who don't know.
DougLaurieSports
Verified Trader,
Could I get an explanation of why that guy was banned? What rule did he break?
Sure, he was espousing an opinion I don't hold (although I find it interesting that people here crow about how they got a great price on a misspelled or misplaced auction -- shouldn't you simply let the person know they made a mistake? Aren't you taking advantage of that person?), but it seemed he was doing it calmly and intelligently.
Sure, he was espousing an opinion I don't hold (although I find it interesting that people here crow about how they got a great price on a misspelled or misplaced auction -- shouldn't you simply let the person know they made a mistake? Aren't you taking advantage of that person?), but it seemed he was doing it calmly and intelligently.
MTO4LIFE
Verified Trader
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharks4life12 View Post
good news!! according to the logic given on shilling in this thread, drivers can now mow
down cyclists on the road as they please. it's the cyclists fault because if they didn't want to get run over, they
shouldn't have been on the road....
I have no problem with bikes on the road, they have wheels too. Now joggers on the other hand... go to the track or use your treadmill(near a window if you like the scenery) or try the woods, nature is nice
But for your own safety use the side walk not the road, put away the ipod and keep your head up... look around... your still in the real world
Back on topic... Shill bidding/ripping someone off in any way shape or form is wrong. Search your true feelings Luke, you know it be true. An may the force be with you.
Originally Posted by sharks4life12 View Post
good news!! according to the logic given on shilling in this thread, drivers can now mow
down cyclists on the road as they please. it's the cyclists fault because if they didn't want to get run over, they
shouldn't have been on the road....
I have no problem with bikes on the road, they have wheels too. Now joggers on the other hand... go to the track or use your treadmill(near a window if you like the scenery) or try the woods, nature is nice
But for your own safety use the side walk not the road, put away the ipod and keep your head up... look around... your still in the real worldBack on topic... Shill bidding/ripping someone off in any way shape or form is wrong. Search your true feelings Luke, you know it be true. An may the force be with you.
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DogfoodSoup
Verified Trader
There's a shocker, Shaun called him on it early on and a few of us suspected it as well.
DougLaurieSports
Verified Trader,
Thanks -- clears it up for me.
PenaltyMan
Verified Trader,
Just gonna test out the new :sniper: emote on the banned tard's head.
Thanks again Brian. :beer:
Thanks again Brian. :beer:
K
kritter47
Guest
I guess I fall under the slightly unpopular opinion on this.
As a person who only buys on eBay, I figure sellers have right to their minimum price. I'd much, much, much prefer they do this through a reserve or simply a minimum bid if only to give me a heads up going into the sale. But like most things in like, caveat emptor. I have to be willing to pay up to my max bid. The card, ultimately, belongs to the seller and he can choose what the minimum he should sell it for is.
Generally, I try to "beat the system" by putting in a very late bid that doesn't give time for a bidding war with another interested seller, which I guess has the side benefit of not a lot of time to shill bid underneath it. And if I enter a bid of $30 and hope to get the card for less but get it shill bid up, I might leave with a little sour taste in my mouth from the seller, but I won't feel ripped off. Again, at the end of the day, it's his card. If I were trying to negotiate a sale one-on-one, no amount of begging, pleading, cajoling or whining is likely to move the guy off his price. No amount of "dude, I am your market for this card - no one else really wants it" will convince him. He gets to set the value because he owns it.
The people most "hurt," I guess, are the people who are relying on those sales to set values and basing further things off that sale. But unless the card is extremely limited in number, you're going to have an average that should help minimize the impact of a sale that's not in the same ballpark as the rest. And with 1/1s, well, again, it's his card. He gets to set the price no matter what I think the "market price" is.
This all assumes that the shill bidding in question is blindly bidding up a card as opposed to the type where the shill bidder goes above your price to find your max bid, retracts the bid, then enters something just below it. If they're willing to keep the card because the bids in question don't meet their minimum price once shilled up, then fine. His card, and his risk with setting his minimum asking price is that someone might not bite that high, just like with negotiating for it in person. It's also something that could feasibly be done at a live, in-person auction. The second way is exploiting the electronic records that wouldn't exist in person.
I also think eBay should enforce its policies. They have a no shill bid policy that is toothless because they don't enforce it. They either need to enforce the policy with some regularity or drop it all together.
As a person who only buys on eBay, I figure sellers have right to their minimum price. I'd much, much, much prefer they do this through a reserve or simply a minimum bid if only to give me a heads up going into the sale. But like most things in like, caveat emptor. I have to be willing to pay up to my max bid. The card, ultimately, belongs to the seller and he can choose what the minimum he should sell it for is.
Generally, I try to "beat the system" by putting in a very late bid that doesn't give time for a bidding war with another interested seller, which I guess has the side benefit of not a lot of time to shill bid underneath it. And if I enter a bid of $30 and hope to get the card for less but get it shill bid up, I might leave with a little sour taste in my mouth from the seller, but I won't feel ripped off. Again, at the end of the day, it's his card. If I were trying to negotiate a sale one-on-one, no amount of begging, pleading, cajoling or whining is likely to move the guy off his price. No amount of "dude, I am your market for this card - no one else really wants it" will convince him. He gets to set the value because he owns it.
The people most "hurt," I guess, are the people who are relying on those sales to set values and basing further things off that sale. But unless the card is extremely limited in number, you're going to have an average that should help minimize the impact of a sale that's not in the same ballpark as the rest. And with 1/1s, well, again, it's his card. He gets to set the price no matter what I think the "market price" is.
This all assumes that the shill bidding in question is blindly bidding up a card as opposed to the type where the shill bidder goes above your price to find your max bid, retracts the bid, then enters something just below it. If they're willing to keep the card because the bids in question don't meet their minimum price once shilled up, then fine. His card, and his risk with setting his minimum asking price is that someone might not bite that high, just like with negotiating for it in person. It's also something that could feasibly be done at a live, in-person auction. The second way is exploiting the electronic records that wouldn't exist in person.
I also think eBay should enforce its policies. They have a no shill bid policy that is toothless because they don't enforce it. They either need to enforce the policy with some regularity or drop it all together.
DogfoodSoup
Verified Trader
Then the seller should set the minimum starting bid for what they want and not have someone run up bids.
Jester240
Registered Trader
I dont feel it affects me. The people getting short changed here is the sellers. They have to pay the fee for their card they won from themselves. If they couldnt bid on their own product, like they do, they would set a reserve. What they are doing is trying to cut ebay out of its reserve auction fee. The way I see it is, if they are forced to pay that fee, they would reserve it for what they bid on their own auction anyways. So either I would pay that or wont.
If I wouldnt pay what they bid it to the card never would have been mine anyways because they would have reserved it for that much. The only thing the seller is really doing to me is getting my hopes up of finding a card I wanted and thought I had a chance to win through auction that I didnt. I can still try to deal with them and if I saw the same seller relist the card I would just contact them and try to work out a price instead of bidding on it again.
If I wouldnt pay what they bid it to the card never would have been mine anyways because they would have reserved it for that much. The only thing the seller is really doing to me is getting my hopes up of finding a card I wanted and thought I had a chance to win through auction that I didnt. I can still try to deal with them and if I saw the same seller relist the card I would just contact them and try to work out a price instead of bidding on it again.
Q
quincy
Guest
Y'know, one school of psychoanalysis teaches that if you let the patient talk for a sufficiently long time, they'll eventually arrive at the correct solution. It also occurs to me that that's an ideal approach with which to maximize billing per ailment.
This thread has demonstrated beautifully just how skillfully disgusting behaviour can be rationalized away. I can't believe I'm actually reading a thread that justifies and exonerates shill bidding. Shame on you who did.
Really, really done.
This thread has demonstrated beautifully just how skillfully disgusting behaviour can be rationalized away. I can't believe I'm actually reading a thread that justifies and exonerates shill bidding. Shame on you who did.
Really, really done.
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