The JMFJ effect!
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chadsexington
Registered User
"I heartily endorse this event and/or product" - Krusty the Clown
MMarch
One Man Wolfpack, ,
The author was exactly right when he said this in his article "But hey, I've said it so many times that you're probably tired of hearing it from me. Plus I'm borderline retarded so you shouldn't be listening to me anyway."
plubers
Verified Trader,
He was also right when he said JJ sucks!
MMarch
One Man Wolfpack, ,
Great, I hope the Kings trade him. The guy is the scapegoat for the Kings having a horrible defensive system in place and his d-partner leaving him hung out to dry multiple times a game. Thankfully the Kings had a goalie who stood on his head last year or it could have been a whole lot worse for all of them.
wingnut888
Verified Trader,
I'd still trade for him. The stats aren't helping him out but I'd be willing to bet several of the negative stats weren't all his fault. He would flourish if he had a mentor (Nick Lidstrom). I always remember Scotty Bowman saying how defenseman sometimes take longer to flourish in the league. Could be growing pains and lack of leadership on the Kings part.
JohnnyDrama
Verified Trader,
But Tony, clearly +/- tells the entire story!
sharks4life12
Verified Trader
JJ Walker sucks? but he says DYNOMITE so well!
MMarch
One Man Wolfpack, ,
We're not supposed to post links to other forums, but someone did a great job analyzing along with video proof of how Johnson's stats are blown out of proportion. From one game alone on 2/28/11:
Much has been made of Jack Johnson's abysmal plus/minus rating over the years. This season he registered career high's in personal stats with 37 assists and 42 points while averaging over 23 minutes of ice time. It was also his worst season in terms of plus/minus with Johnson finishing the season with a -21 in 82 games.
What I decided to do was to focus in on four games from this past season in which Johnson finished as a -3 and analyze whether or not his defensive play was at fault for any of the goals scored against the Kings. I'll provide the analysis game-by-game in separate posts within this thread. Here is the analysis from the most current game from last season in which Johnson was a -3.
2/28/11 vs. Detroit
- At 0:15, Scudri attempts to get the puck out of the zone, the Kings forward (Simmonds) fails to gain possession of the puck along the boards, and Drew Miller scores from an odd angle.
Verdict: Johnson's defensive play did not result in this goal.
- At 1:15, Williams with a bad pass attempt as Doughty is caught in a vulnerable position, Helm gains possession of the puck on a partial breakaway as Johnson properly cuts off the middle of the ice, but Helm beats Quick cleanly for a shorthanded goal.
Verdict: Johnson's defensive play did not result in this goal.
- At 1:30, the Kings turnover the puck in their own end as Richardson fails to get the puck out of the zone and Kopitar can be seen attempting the leave the zone early when the turnover occurs, Jack Johnson is covering a Wings player in front of the net as Scuderi plays the shooter. The puck takes a crazy hop as Scuderi attempts to whack at it and Johnson still has his man tied up, but a trailing Red Wings forward, Drew Miller, bangs in the loose puck while the Kings forwards look on. The Kings defense is outnumbered 3-2 in front of the net.
Verdict: Johnson's defensive play did not result in this goal.
So here we have a game where Johnson is a -3, and after watching the video it is clear as day that JJ was doing exactly what he should, in position taking his man, while a number of other Kings (including super star Doughty) blow their assignment and the one guy who is doing his job takes the blame. Funny how that works, maybe if Doughty or Scuderi or Mitchell or any of the other guys on that team actually did their job more times then not, the all important stats might be better. Some poeple just have a personal vendeta against a certain player (me included, see Carcillo or Cooke), and you are not going to change their minds. If any Kings fan thinks that a martinez or Hickey or anyone else from their system is going to step in to JJ's role and do a better job, well, I will just keep laughing. They would probably be a -60 for the year playing his minutes with his teammates blowing their assignments like they do on a regular basis.
11/17/10 vs. Columbus
- At :35, Columbus has possession of the puck as they enter the Kings' zone after killing a penalty, Doughty playing the puck carrier while Johnson covers the front of the net. The puck carrier connects with a pass for a one-timer from the trailing Columbus defenseman, who Brad Richardson failed to cover.
Verdict: Johnson's defensive play did not result in this goal.
- At 1:43, Rick Nash makes Davis Drewiske look like a minor league defenseman.
Verdict: Johnson's defensive play did not result in this goal.
- At 1:55, the Blue Jackets score an empty net goal.
Verdict: Johnson's defensive play did not result in this goal.
Let's remember also, wasn't it the Kings coaching staff who said Simmonds going from a +18 to a -3 in one year was "progress"?
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gretzky99
Guest
better get used to JJ - he'll be the Kings #1 d-man after DL trades Doughty and his crazy contract demands.
plubers
Verified Trader,
Are you trying to kill me dude? hahahaha :beer:
sprague11
Upstanding Member
Agreed that JJ needs a mentor in the worst way
jmatchett
Banned User
So it's just a coincidence that every player has a statistically better +/- when playing without him? Granted, I don't watch as many Kings games as I should (I have work to worry about), but when EVERY SINGLE PLAYER has a lower goal differential with one specific player, it does throw up a flag. As for the rest of your post, it pointed out 2 games where he was a combined -6. For 2 of those goals, Johnson's play isn't mentioned, so I don't know what he was doing (he could be tying up a man in front, or posing with the cute blonde in the first row), but the author likes to flatly state "Johnson's defensive play did not result in this goal." Others factors come into play, however.
" At 1:15, Williams with a bad pass attempt as Doughty is caught in a vulnerable position, Helm gains possession of the puck on a partial breakaway as Johnson properly cuts off the middle of the ice, but Helm beats Quick cleanly for a shorthanded goal. " I'd like to see video of this, because it just talks about Johnson after a turnover is created. Did he provide a possible outlet for a pass from Williams, or was Williams being converged on by 2 players and had to try a low-percentage pass sicne no one was open? If Helm gets a breakaway, why wasn't Johnson stationed between him and the goalie to begin with? These are the things that one run-on sentence does not answer, and it better shown with video covering his entire shift.
I'm not saying he's a terrible player, and he has offensive skills. But when you hear from multiple coaches who say he has fairly poor defensive skills, and it's shown that every one of his defensive partners has a better goal differential when playing away from him, it's hard counter it by using snippets of goal-scoring plays from 2 specific games.
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gretzky99
Guest
i have watched virtually every game of Johnson's career and i can tell you i remember that play and Johnson did everything right. that being said, i do agree that Johnson is not a terrific defender at all. he still makes a bone-headed play now and again but it is much less than previous years. but his positioning is much better than it was in previous years and he is on the ice a ton against the other team's best players.
Johnson had two bad stretches that coincided with the team's bad stretches where he took a huge hit in the +/-.
Johnson won't be considered a top d-man until he gets his +/- up and i agree with that. but his value lies in places that +/- doesn't reflect - especially on the power play.
Doughty's +/- was better but he made more major gaffes last year than Johnson did. there were multiple times on the power play where he turned the puck over at the blue line and gave away a breakaway goal (that resulted in a - for Johnson as well).
Doughty has huge talent but having watched them both all year last year Johnson was the more consistent player. +/- doesn't tell the whole story.
JohnnyDrama
Verified Trader,
I'm not going to comment on JMFJ specifically because I don't watch much hockey outside of the Sabres/playoffs but +/- is the most deceptive stat there is. You could literally be -100 and not play a hand in a single goal and vice versa.
jmatchett
Banned User
I'm aware of this. Plus/minus is basically a stat telling how one specific group of players performs against another group of players. So to compare the +/- from one player to another is useless.
However, what the author was comparing is how being paired with Johnson affected +/-, which I think is a valid stat (albeit not the whole story). In general, it shows me that adding Johnson to the other players on the ice resulted in a decrease in goal differential.
Example: In the 07/08 play-offs against Washington, the Flyers 3rd pairing was Jason Smith and Jaroslav Modry. For the first (I believe) 11 goals Washington scored, one or both of Smith and Modry was on the ice. Smith was playing with 2 separated shoulders, and Modry was God-awful. Their play clearly contributed to a low goal differential for the Flyers, and this was painfully reflected in the +/-. So no, there were times where they went out and did good things, or simply played effective defense. However, when they played, their lack of good defense led to a goal, and was reflected in their +/-, which I think is what this article says.
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gretzky99
Guest
what is being overlooked by the author of the article is that JJ keeps getting moved around. he's played with a ton of different guys. Doughty hasn't. Doughty hasn't played with Greene or Drewiske or Martinez. He only has played with Mitchell and Scuderi. i don't care who you are, switching d-partners is difficult. Johnson has been asked to play both LD and RD and hasn't stuck with one guy due to injuries for very long at all.
i'm sorry, but playing JJ with Greene, Martinez, Harrold and Drewiske and having his +/- be poor is not all his fault. of course, i don't disagree that Johnson can get better but as always, stats don't tell the entire story.
timber09
www.lumberjackcards.com,
Trade him and see how happy a new fan base would be to welcome him.
#1 - He comes out of Michigan which is notorious for not plaing a pro-style game where players take longer to develop.
#2 - This is a made up stat
#3 - JMFJ was one of the best defesemen for the US in the Olympics and borderline dominant at times which tells me he's a pretty damn good player.
#4 - HE'S 24 YEARS OLD!
How many defenseman are playing at elite caliber levels when they are 24 - not many. The Kings picked him up for a song and now have a damn good defenseman to help build a winner around moving forward. But hey, you want rid of him, fine - we will take him in Vancouver - I am sure we can find a spot for him.
#1 - He comes out of Michigan which is notorious for not plaing a pro-style game where players take longer to develop.
#2 - This is a made up stat
#3 - JMFJ was one of the best defesemen for the US in the Olympics and borderline dominant at times which tells me he's a pretty damn good player.
#4 - HE'S 24 YEARS OLD!
How many defenseman are playing at elite caliber levels when they are 24 - not many. The Kings picked him up for a song and now have a damn good defenseman to help build a winner around moving forward. But hey, you want rid of him, fine - we will take him in Vancouver - I am sure we can find a spot for him.
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gretzky99
Guest
for a 'Nucks fan you sure know what you are talking about 
- an no, you can't have him.
- an no, you can't have him.Orca Pod
Bitter, Jaded & Disillusioned!,
for a 'Nucks fan you sure know what you are talking about
But... but... but...
Marco is from BC, and he's a Kings fan, so I thought he knew what he was talking about! I am confused.
Seriously, after seeing his pathetic show of poor sprtsmanship at the WJHC in Vancouver, I don't like the guy. But, if he were to one day magically appear in an orca blue jersey, I would be one happy camper. The guy gets a bad rap from some Kings fans for sure.
