Tim Horton "Patch Cards"

[cburt]

I think the responsibility here falls to the buyer. Most people know that Timmy's doesn't have patch cards.

It's like this with any custom...I saw a guy re-post a listing that had a 2013-14 Artifacts Shea Weber card that was customized with a very large 3-colour Habs patch. Anybody who has the ability to Google (and if you're on eBay, you've got the ability to Google) can instantly find out that 13-14 Artifacts had small dual windows, not large circular memorabilia windows.

The guy was legit asking if UD screwed up or was prescient about the trade.

It's true, each collector has to do his/her own research on each card/set they buy. With the vast amount of sets/sub-sets, etc. that are out there, people have to stay vigilant and informed. Still think the seller could do more to fully disclose that it is a custom in his listing description, not some vague sub-title below the main listing title.

On one hand I have to give the guy some credit for his creativity and ability, but on the other hand this boils down to tampering. The tampering part I don't like.

 

[g-force]

These are deceptive listings. The seller could get into a lot of legal trouble if either Tim Horton's or Upper Deck decided to pursue the illegal use of their property. Further, the seller is holding these out as being Tim Horton's cards, not custom made cards. The subtitle is vague. This is a scam plain and simple and it's unfortunate that people do these things to make a quick buck.

 

[re-ac-tor]

I'm not saying everyone knows what they're buying but in this case, the onus is on the bidder. The seller clearly states in the title for all to see that these are customized cards. My 2 cents

People seem happy, as he has 100% positive feedback, but what happens when someone buys from him and resells them a couple years down the line without being forthcoming about the cards?

My best,

Ken

 

[frankiefives]

People seem happy, as he has 100% positive feedback, but what happens when someone buys from him and resells them a couple years down the line without being forthcoming about the cards?

My best,

Ken

Again, I'm not saying this is cool. I'm just saying the seller has clearly stated that these are customized cards.

 

[gomaz]

People seem happy, as he has 100% positive feedback, but what happens when someone buys from him and resells them a couple years down the line without being forthcoming about the cards?

My best,

Ken

Unfortunately it comes down to buyer-beware and buyer-be-educated.

 

[Leafsfan1967]

Unfortunately it comes down to buyer-beware and buyer-be-educated.

When Upper Deck legal team catch up with him, he's gonna get squashed like a bug. :snapout:

 

[gomaz]

When Upper Deck legal team catch up with him, he's gonna get squashed like a bug. :snapout:

They may send out a cease and desist. Otherwise, I can't see them putting many resources into it. Secondary market has never been their highest priority.

 

[primetimepawich]

Unfortunately it comes down to buyer-beware and buyer-be-educated.

Pretty much this. We're not talking $5 impulse buys coming out of one's allowance here. If you're dropping $100, $200 or more on a card, you should ABSOLUTELY know what you're getting yourself into. Maybe that's a drop in the bucket to some, but it ain't to me. Do I know everything there is to know about this hobby? Of course not. But I know some things, and I certainly wouldn't hesitate to use the resources available to me at HI and elsewhere to fill in the blanks.

If you're willing to throw serious money down on a card without being informed or willing to ask questions, that's foolish. This isn't patch faking, which to be fair is always a danger and can fool any collector if done well. This is flat-out modifying a card into a variation that never was.

This hobby is like any other hobby involving hard-earned money - it needs to be treated with respect. This is not a great investment hobby, and I realize that buying a card is like buying a new car in that (at least in my case) it depreciates as soon as you do. If you have the disposable income and don't care about retaining value, if you want something that "looks nice" no matter the cost or actual value, have at 'er. I collect who I collect for my own reasons; I wouldn't tell others how to collect and am always happy when new people find their way into the hobby. But in today's internet age, we have access to so much information at our fingertips that there's zero excuse for blindly jumping headfirst into this.

Joe

 

[gomaz]

But in today's internet age, we have access to so much information at our fingertips that there's zero excuse for blindly jumping headfirst into this.

Joe

I almost added a paragraph to my post basically saying this same thing. There are so many resources and venues available to ask questions and do a little research that I find it difficult to find pity on anyone who buys one of these thinking its pack pulled, either now or in 5-10 years from now.

 

[Leafsfan1967]

They may send out a cease and desist. Otherwise, I can't see them putting many resources into it. Secondary market has never been their highest priority.

True, but they will get that taken down, and anything like it if they catch wind. Someone needs to tell this guy that you cannot use someone else's likeness, and profit from it. If it's only a card, or two, you are right, likely not worth their efforts, but if this guy is building an empire, using UD likeness, and without a license, that is another story.

 

[gomaz]

True, but they will get that taken down, and anything like it if they catch wind. Someone needs to tell this guy that you cannot use someone else's likeness, and profit from it. If it's only a card, or two, you are right, likely not worth their efforts, but if this guy is building an empire, using UD likeness, and without a license, that is another story.

I agree, if he builds an empire, UD and the licensors will want a piece of it!

 

[oiler8]

For me, I always read the decription and if I have any doubts I do some quick research to see if it's legit.

Regardless, he has some NICE designs- UD could take a page from his book - I really like this design:

Cool McDavid design

It just looks sharp to me.

 

[bamlinden]

True, but they will get that taken down, and anything like it if they catch wind. Someone needs to tell this guy that you cannot use someone else's likeness, and profit from it. If it's only a card, or two, you are right, likely not worth their efforts, but if this guy is building an empire, using UD likeness, and without a license, that is another story.

The seller probably already knows that you can't just use someone else's design, likeness, photo, etc. and profit from it......he just doesn't give a crap. Easier to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission....especially when you know you'll never be given that permission. And I think it's these kinds of cards that can really hurt the hobby.

Many sellers aren't just doing a card or two. They have strong monthly sales from these customs. Building an empire???.....not quite. But they are certainly making good coin profiting from other people's work.

 

[kevhur]

I think he is getting the high prices because the buyers are only buying (collectors of) Tim's cards. They do not collect other cards. They most likely use to collect the McDonald's sets years back and remembered how hard the patch cards were. So most really do not know what they are buying. Still no excuse to do the research.
I attended a card show last weekend and there was a lot of new buyers just looking to finish the Tim's sets.

 

[quincy]

He's benefiting from collector ignorance. He's also left himself wide open to action, as he hasn't added any disclaimers stating that these are aftermarket mods. The aftermarket stuff was once pursued legally by UD, and IIRC they found that they didn't have standing to object as long as things were declared aftermarket mods for entertainment only.

This is the loophole that allows stuff like McFarlane customs and mods, and that leximo jackass to continue existing. UD has grounds if he's representing these things as issued by them. So too do buyers if they learn that these are homemade broders.

 

[bamlinden]

I think he is getting the high prices because the buyers are only buying (collectors of) Tim's cards. They do not collect other cards. They most likely use to collect the McDonald's sets years back and remembered how hard the patch cards were. So most really do not know what they are buying. Still no excuse to do the research.
I attended a card show last weekend and there was a lot of new buyers just looking to finish the Tim's sets.

Good point. I think Tim Hortons cards are a strong candidate for "a product to enter into the hobby with". I have no doubt that a number of new collectors are being opened up to what all is out there. Seeing these customs might be more exhilarating than flag raising. How much "buyer beware" should be placed on a "newbie" (I would still say a lot) but how much responsibility should people within the hobby (card companies, distributors, shops, shows, hobby boards, etc.) have to deter these kinds of sales (especially if there is minimal to no indication of it being a true custom)?

My co-worker has discovered Timmy's cards this year and is currently collecting them. I should ask him his thoughts on this - and if he's excited or skeptical about the custom.

 

[djsports]

I personally would of added the Anderson to my collection if shipping to the states wasn’t 12.05.

If these buyers filed claims against the buyers, they will win.

As someone who has to deal with buyer ignorance with non-sport cards, I can almost guarantee that he has settled his fair share of claims.

In the past 12 months I have had close to 50 cases opened up against me because buyer thought they were getting an actual comic, collectible tray or some other non card item instead of a trading card. Ebay almost always sides with the buyer or refunds them without actually removing the money from my account.

There are very little consequences for buyers and they know it.

 

[bamlinden]

I personally would of added the Anderson to my collection if shipping to the states wasn’t 12.05.

If these buyers filed claims against the buyers, they will win.

As someone who has to deal with buyer ignorance with non-sport cards, I can almost guarantee that he has settled his fair share of claims.

In the past 12 months I have had close to 50 cases opened up against me because buyer thought they were getting an actual comic, collectible tray or some other non card item instead of a trading card. Ebay almost always sides with the buyer or refunds them without actually removing the money from my account.

There are very little consequences for buyers and they know it.

Honest question......just curious.

Out of the 50 or so cases you've dealt with over the past year, how many do you think opened them because they're trying to take advantage of the situation and are looking to get "something for nothing" so to speak vs. how many really didn't know what they were getting....thus an honest mistake?

 

[ncm7772]

I can't believe these cards are selling like this.

The only customized card I'd pay for is a card of me, with an actual game used jersey of mine! Which I did, and it was less than 20% of some these cards!! LOL, but it wouldn't sell on eBay for $0.01 including shipping, haha.

 

[NNeves]

I'm on the fence as to whether it's legit or not ... however I do have to give kudos as well to the design and the effort put in to assembling these. Sure they are pulling in $50-$100 for simple base cards and fabric but the time put in to making these must be significant.