czech20
Verified Trader,
Broke three boxes and all mine are good as far as I can see. Looked at them through a loupe and no marks.
UD Series 1 Young Guns Damage?
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horton16
Verified Trader
I posted this in the other thread, but here it is again:
UD went several extra miles for the YG issue:
Quincy, I have to disagree with the "UD went the extra mile" comment.
Where the *%@! was UDs quality control, from the start? :| Where were the inspectors after the first sheet rolled off the press? :foottap: They printed hundreds if not thousands of sheets without identifying the flaws. Was someone off sick that day :dizzy:? The UD Series 1 Young Guns must be the most saught after, of all the UD cards for the vast majority of collectors.
Giving them any credit for having several thousand YG cards shipped to the Expo via Fed Ex to help their own PR and to satify a few hundred or thousand people that attended the Expo doesn't rectify anything. The majority of the product will be busted outside of the Expo.
Also providing the distributors thousands of Young Guns and hoping they get given to people who bought the product and received defective cards is not a start or solution. Just wishful thinking and nieve in my opinion. I believe it'll only flood the market, making any of this years Young Guns worth a fraction of what they could have been.
I foresee many more ebay disputes pertaining to the damaged Young Guns getting sold and sellers claiming they didn't know of the roller marks. It'll be buyer beware for any UD Series 1 Young Gun card sold on ebay.
Let's see in a month or two how UDs customer service handles the additional influx of damage replacement requests for the masses and not just several hundred. If history has shown us anything, it'll be entertaining.
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Kehfee
Verified Trader
I'm not going to complain. It's not when companies make mistakes that is the issue. It's how they handle their mistakes. By replacing these cards. UD is doing a good thing.
BigBarracuda
Verified Trader,
Since this was raised on the other thread but not here, I'll cut and paste my opinion...
Of course I can only comment from a distance, but I can't help but think back to a saying that went something like
"If you don't learn from the past, you are destined to fail over and over again"
I'm not making this post with the goal of raising ire towards UD again, especially since they have been taking quite a beating on this site, but am I the only person that remembers the Ovechkin Black Diamond rookie debacle? The AO quad came out with such high hopes, so many people seeking it, and the the card holding such great value. Then UD decided to hand them out like candy at Hallowe'en. Sure at a glance it seemed like UD was really trying to reach out, but what really happened was that they ticked off a lot of collectors by letting everyone know that UD had piles of the cards around. The AO quad rc value plummeted. I know it did, I had one.
Now apparently they show up with sleeves of Tavares YG's? What does that say about either the insertion/distribution or re-running of certain cards. Are the SP's no longer SP's, to be valued as highly as a Paul Kariya rookie, or Jaromir Jagr rookie? Sure they are great players, but those rc's are almost worthless (in a comparative way to "SP's").
I'm sorry but I don't subscribe to this being a good gesture by UD. I think they simply didn't learn from the AO mix up. I really wish UD could step up and actually do something right, but they continue to shoot themselves in the foot. It's not all about Karvin, but he is the link most of us have to UD, so I say come on Karvin...raise the bar on the company you work for, fight the apparent complacency, make people accountable.
At least I now know of one Tavares rc that will never make it into my collection. Please don't mess up any more of them.
Regretfully,
Glenn
Of course I can only comment from a distance, but I can't help but think back to a saying that went something like
"If you don't learn from the past, you are destined to fail over and over again"
I'm not making this post with the goal of raising ire towards UD again, especially since they have been taking quite a beating on this site, but am I the only person that remembers the Ovechkin Black Diamond rookie debacle? The AO quad came out with such high hopes, so many people seeking it, and the the card holding such great value. Then UD decided to hand them out like candy at Hallowe'en. Sure at a glance it seemed like UD was really trying to reach out, but what really happened was that they ticked off a lot of collectors by letting everyone know that UD had piles of the cards around. The AO quad rc value plummeted. I know it did, I had one.
Now apparently they show up with sleeves of Tavares YG's? What does that say about either the insertion/distribution or re-running of certain cards. Are the SP's no longer SP's, to be valued as highly as a Paul Kariya rookie, or Jaromir Jagr rookie? Sure they are great players, but those rc's are almost worthless (in a comparative way to "SP's").
I'm sorry but I don't subscribe to this being a good gesture by UD. I think they simply didn't learn from the AO mix up. I really wish UD could step up and actually do something right, but they continue to shoot themselves in the foot. It's not all about Karvin, but he is the link most of us have to UD, so I say come on Karvin...raise the bar on the company you work for, fight the apparent complacency, make people accountable.
At least I now know of one Tavares rc that will never make it into my collection. Please don't mess up any more of them.
Regretfully,
Glenn
Kenny Hall
New Member, Must Send First
I bought half of a case and all mine have them! 
What should I now do to get them replaced? Anyone know? Help is appreciated!
Thanks,
Kenny
What should I now do to get them replaced? Anyone know? Help is appreciated!Thanks,
Kenny
E
es_19
Guest
the ones i've listed on ebay that do have the marks, i've mentioned the damage in my listing...have you guys done the same or have come across other sellers mentioning this?
Q
quincy
Guest
I repeat: UD went the extra mile here. They responded quickly to try and address the situation quickly at the Expo.
For those not at the expo, I understand where you're coming from. Riddle me this though, please - barring unrealistic statements like "they should have prevented this from happening", what would have been the right solution in your eyes? Genuine question. I'm interested what folks think SHOULD be done - and please, be realistic.
One more thought: I don't think I'm the only old goat around here who remembers the incredible damage issues with 96-97 UD Ice... There were widespread damage issues with the rookies in particular in that set. Those got addressed quickly. No reason to think these won't either.
For those not at the expo, I understand where you're coming from. Riddle me this though, please - barring unrealistic statements like "they should have prevented this from happening", what would have been the right solution in your eyes? Genuine question. I'm interested what folks think SHOULD be done - and please, be realistic.
One more thought: I don't think I'm the only old goat around here who remembers the incredible damage issues with 96-97 UD Ice... There were widespread damage issues with the rookies in particular in that set. Those got addressed quickly. No reason to think these won't either.
Leafsfan1967
Disgruntled Leafs Fan,
Steve, I haven't bought any boxes yet, so I'm not really qualified to give an opinion on the damaged YG's, but if you are asking generally speaking what should of been done, I'd have to know if they actually knew about the damage, or not, but decided to pack it out anyways for various reasons, one being to have it out in time for the show. I really find it hard to believe that these all got packed out this way, and nobody at all noticed they had roller marks, but I guess that there are only select few that could answer that question, truthfully. If they at all knew about the damage, then obviously these should never have left the building. They should of all been destroyed, and remade. That is the only acceptable recourse.
cards-gotta-go
Banned User
Their CS lines are going to be JAMMED... for WEEKS.
This is gonna be a NIGHTMARE for them.
And anyone who gets stiffed on this one is gonna get turned off... and rightly so.
chum
Registered Trader
so... was there a 2nd run of the ygs to replace the damaged ones?
trpnwillie
Verified Trader
That's my concern. I read in another post somewhere that they shipped out directly from the printer?
Can we just fire 'em up and print off whatever, whenever now?
cjkuehn
Verified Trader
I talked with Karvin on this, and not to quote him (as best as I can remember)
'''the problem is with the canadian cases, as they are prepared first in
order to meet shipping deadlines, it was discovered after most cases
got packed and shipped. it was then corrected and some good cases
still made their way to CA. the US cases should have all been good.
I did 5 US cases and they were all fine.
UD did go to alot of effort to get good guns printed up and overnighted
to the expo, + their staff really worked hard to exchange any that
were brought to their booth.
in my opinion, they are doing all they can.
'''the problem is with the canadian cases, as they are prepared first in
order to meet shipping deadlines, it was discovered after most cases
got packed and shipped. it was then corrected and some good cases
still made their way to CA. the US cases should have all been good.
I did 5 US cases and they were all fine.
UD did go to alot of effort to get good guns printed up and overnighted
to the expo, + their staff really worked hard to exchange any that
were brought to their booth.
in my opinion, they are doing all they can.
DCUnited96
Verified Trader,
Kudos to Upper Deck for trying to make things right. They still need to work on improving quality control. From my recent experiences, they've had quite a few production problems, mostly on cards that fly under the radar.
08-09 Masterpieces Brown Border Parallels - a lot had peeling damage
2008 Timeline Baseball - The Top Prospect design had Roller indents (almost all)
2008 Timeline Baseball - The Timeless Teams design had notching at the top of the card on about 50% of what I opened
2009 Piece of History Baseball - Some had notching on the top of the card
I've seen limited roller marks on other products, such as 2009 OPC Baseball.
I sent back what I wanted fixed, and Upper Deck replaced the cards in a timely manner.
At the end of the day, nobody cares how many of the cards exist of the products I listed, especially the baseball products (no true RCs). None of the products I listed are likely to be graded. Some people request replacement, some do not. A lot of people do not care about the base cards...
With the Young Guns, Upper Deck finally messed up on a product that mattered. People care about Young Gun condition, and people probably care about Young Gun production numbers.
There is probably enough Quality Control problems in recent history, that had corrections been made, this likely would not have happened.
08-09 Masterpieces Brown Border Parallels - a lot had peeling damage
2008 Timeline Baseball - The Top Prospect design had Roller indents (almost all)
2008 Timeline Baseball - The Timeless Teams design had notching at the top of the card on about 50% of what I opened
2009 Piece of History Baseball - Some had notching on the top of the card
I've seen limited roller marks on other products, such as 2009 OPC Baseball.
I sent back what I wanted fixed, and Upper Deck replaced the cards in a timely manner.
At the end of the day, nobody cares how many of the cards exist of the products I listed, especially the baseball products (no true RCs). None of the products I listed are likely to be graded. Some people request replacement, some do not. A lot of people do not care about the base cards...
With the Young Guns, Upper Deck finally messed up on a product that mattered. People care about Young Gun condition, and people probably care about Young Gun production numbers.
There is probably enough Quality Control problems in recent history, that had corrections been made, this likely would not have happened.
spiral8
Verified Trader
OK, lets have everyone on this site who thinks Young Guns from any year are SP'd in any way, shape or form...Wait, no one? Maybe it's because there's quite literally tens of thousands of each and every one of them, and that's not even counting the ones inserted into retail packs.
They aren't limited in the least. The only reason they hold any real value is because Joe Public believes that the Young Gun rookies from Series 1 and 2 each year are the gold standard for rookie cards. And because so many people think that way (hard core collector and casual collector alike) that makes it so.
This IS NOT a Black Diamond AO issue again. This is not going to be a case where I trade in my badly damaged Ovechkin Young Gun and get a minty mint Ovechkin Black Diamond rookie. In this situation, if you have a damaged Tavares Young Gun, you get a minty mint Tavares Young Gun back. The end.
As for some dealers getting "sleeves" (ie hundreds) of Tavares Young Guns to distribute to the people who frequent their card stores, that's simply not true. No one was getting hundreds of any one Young Gun without first swapping them out.
People who say that the UD quality control team should've caught it sooner obviously haven't seen the roller damage on these cards. It's quite easy to miss it on your first or even second inspection of the card. Do you want UD to take a magnifying glass to each and every card they make? At that rate NOTHING would be released on time EVER!
Look, the cards got damaged, which is bad. But UD is trying to rectify this issue as best and painlessly as possible, which is good.
Some of you guys need to give your head a shake.
Q
quincy
Guest
Very well-put, Scott, particularly the valuation argument.
cards-gotta-go
Banned User
With respect to the above, there's really a bigger issue here.
There are going to be DROVES of roller marked young guns out there. It's the secondary market's worst nightmare... the most sought after rookie card of the early season products, and the whole thing is off the rails before it starts.
Not everyone is going to get their rookies replaced. And how long will UD honor replacing this particular YG? And how is UD going to handle the onslaught of collectors bent about their best YG being damaged.
Casual collectors could really get turned off by this, in spite of the damage control that UD is doing.
dalecasey
Verified Trader,
In previous years, if I'm not mistaken, Young Guns production runs have been estimated to be 10,000 to 12,000 per RC. The replacement RCs arriving at the Expo ASAP means there are more Young Guns than usual and there will be hundreds more once collectors with damaged cards get theirs replaced by UD.
Some big dealers have been known to sit on cases for a year or two, if not longer. That trend will almost certainly change for 2009-10 UD Series 1 hobby because those cases now run the risk of containing most, if not all, damaged Young Guns. Who would risk hoarding a case or two when there's a strong chance some, if not all, of the RCs inside are damaged?
Unless UD has an endless supply of said cards, the dealer would be left holding rapidly depreciating cards. If the product isn't busted for three or four years (surely, you know dealers sitting on 2005-06 UD Series 1 cases to dangle the Sid the Kid carrot someday), UD's supply of Tavares, Hedman et al RCs would be depleted by then. The dealer or collector who bought the boxes from the dealer would be SOL.
On a related matter regarding UD quality control, many of the redemption RCs in this year's Artifacts Hockey have a serious problem. When you go to scratch the window to reveal the code, many of the numbers/letters peel off too, so you can't make out the entire code. I contacted UD about this and they are aware of the problem.
I had two codes to redeem. One worked fine (like a lottery scratch ticket, as per usual), but the other one was a disaster. The customer service rep told me to e-mail him a scan, which I did, and he would get right back to me.
That was six days ago...
Some big dealers have been known to sit on cases for a year or two, if not longer. That trend will almost certainly change for 2009-10 UD Series 1 hobby because those cases now run the risk of containing most, if not all, damaged Young Guns. Who would risk hoarding a case or two when there's a strong chance some, if not all, of the RCs inside are damaged?
Unless UD has an endless supply of said cards, the dealer would be left holding rapidly depreciating cards. If the product isn't busted for three or four years (surely, you know dealers sitting on 2005-06 UD Series 1 cases to dangle the Sid the Kid carrot someday), UD's supply of Tavares, Hedman et al RCs would be depleted by then. The dealer or collector who bought the boxes from the dealer would be SOL.
On a related matter regarding UD quality control, many of the redemption RCs in this year's Artifacts Hockey have a serious problem. When you go to scratch the window to reveal the code, many of the numbers/letters peel off too, so you can't make out the entire code. I contacted UD about this and they are aware of the problem.
I had two codes to redeem. One worked fine (like a lottery scratch ticket, as per usual), but the other one was a disaster. The customer service rep told me to e-mail him a scan, which I did, and he would get right back to me.
That was six days ago...
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spiral8
Verified Trader
I agree that the replacement time will not be forever, which is too bad for alot of people. But at the same time, that's the way things used to be years and years ago. That's why grading companies even exist. At the end of the day, this may even increase the value of this year's Young Guns, and not devalue them as some are fearing
cards-gotta-go
Banned User
I think this is about more than value.
Some 6 year old walks into Game Breakers and buys a pack of UD1 and gets a Tavares YG crushed by rollermarks. After Hans tells him that he can send it back to UD and get a fresh one... what do you think the kid and his father/mother are going to say?
A. Awesome!
B. 6-8 week turnaround, with no guarantees? We'll try.
C. Screw this. Another casual collector lost.
I'd be willing to bet that at least 3/4 of the time, the answer is C.
And THAT is the biggest problem here.
Sacrebleu
Upstanding Member,
I opened one box yesterday in the good ol' USA and hit Tavares, Hedman, Leino and 3 others I can't remember. All of them had roller marks- they are hard to see but definitely there.
Dave
Dave
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