Patch forger... caught! gomaz would be proud ;)

Sacrebleu said:
The only thing I could think of is if he somehow has a way to separate the card into layers but again it doesn't appear like that was done to mine.
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Without going into detail... that's exactly how they do it (maybe not this guy, but others I've seen / heard about).
 
meatmancgy said:
Without going into detail... that's exactly how they do it (maybe not this guy, but others I've seen / heard about).
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Karvin told me this a couple years ago at Expo. Thinking back now, my guess is that this is UD's corporate response because they are embarrassed by how easy it is to augment their product.
 
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I was actually going to ask that but i did kind of feel stupid for asking about it.

Without going into the whole process of how exactly it's done, is separating the layers of cardboard the way that all these guys seem to be doing the swapping? I have just been looking at the card window for signs of damage.... what else should we be looking for???


Would this maybe help with the arguement that standards need to be enhanced and other companies given a chance with the license agreement???
 
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cardz1976 said:
I was actually going to ask that but i did kind of feel stupid for asking about it.

Without going into the whole process of how exactly it's done, is separating the layers of cardboard the way that all these guys seem to be doing the swapping? I have just been looking at the card window for signs of damage.... what else should we be looking for???
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One of this guy's victims, who is a personal friend of mine, sacrificed a common patch card to see how it is done. He was able to cleanly remove a patch from the card without doing any damage whatsoever. Mind you, he did need to procure a very technical and elusive instrument to perform this complex proccedure: tweezers.
 
Well I say good work to all involved and thnx for their investigations.I would love to think that something will definately come out of all this but I have my reservations.In a perfect world the wrongdoer would be punished butttt..
I'm glad I don't really collect any game used stuff heheh.But seriously to do thsi kind of stuff in a hobby is infuriating as heck.And now I hear about sticker autos too,again a good thing I collect hard signed ones.
Good topic to bring to the forefront though..cheers
 
THERUSSIANRCKT said:
I am just trying to understand the logic. I looked at the auction pages, and the seller does not make any claims at all regarding the card. Now, if someone asked him a question regarding the authenticity of the patch and he replied saying that it is authentic - then he knowingly misrepresented it when he knew it was not authentic. If somone set up a print press and was just printing cards, that case would be open and shut. This is just a little different. The card itself is authentic...an accessory has been replaced. Hopefully, one of the investigators here had documented communication with the seller where they clearly misrepresented the card. We all clearly see it as fraud as we know the intentions of the seller. But the law leaves so many loopholes. Only when we clearly understand the law regarding this type of activity, can we really work to stop it.
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The certification on the back of the card verifies the piece that was originally in it, not the piece that replaced it. That alone is opening a world of trouble, I'd say.
 
I imagine the reason why you need to log into HI in order to view the forums is a way to keep our information here private, not only from lurkers but also from search engines. Seeing how that is the case, things like this shouldn't be encouraged:

http://www.thetradersarena.com/vbul/showthread.php?p=32641

I am not a member of that forum but the thread popped up when searching in google.
 
Tripredacus said:
I imagine the reason why you need to log into HI in order to view the forums is a way to keep our information here private, not only from lurkers but also from search engines. Seeing how that is the case, things like this shouldn't be encouraged:

http://www.thetradersarena.com/vbul/showthread.php?p=32641

I am not a member of that forum but the thread popped up when searching in google.
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The owner of that site requested he be able to copy & paste it on there, to encourage information flow to all parties. I'm fine with it.
 
Many thanks to those involved in bringing this to everyone's attention. People like this need to be stopped.
 
cards-gotta-go said:
This is why you buy from people you TRUST, whether it's online or in person.
TRUST is what makes HI better than all other sites.
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While I love the sentiment behind your post, it has gotten to the point where we don't know if we have fake patches in our collections/inventory. You may trust someone, but can you trust their cards??

Note the disclaimer in my sig.
 
cards-gotta-go said:
This is why you buy from people you TRUST, whether it's online or in person.
TRUST is what makes HI better than all other sites.
Click to expand...

Well, according to a few here on HI, he is well respected and they're absolutely shocked at the news so who can you really trust anymore?
 
lol, that's it, GAME OVER.

shut the hobby and sites down. no more UD, exclusives, itg vs ud threads, fake patches, fake auto stickers, dud boxes, redemption and replacement problems. the world is a happier place. :p
 
UD Response

Just wanted to chime in quickly here as Bruce shared this post with me. I won't be able to go back and forth on this so I apologize, but just wanted to at least explain our position on it and answer some questions that came up.

When we see situations like this, we look at legal action we can take. If we believe there is a case we usually will go after them on copyright infringement. They have changed our product where we authenticate a game-used swatch is used and they have changed it. For a variety of reasons, we don't comment on cases filed and what happens to people we go after, but we certainly do not turn a blind eye to it. I shared this thread with our legal team and they are reviewing.

I also shared the thread with our head of creative who ended up coming in my office shortly after I sent it over to discuss this. He's a pretty busy guy, but he came over because he takes it very seriously. He shared that we continue to look at ways to deter this practice of changing swatches out. We have looked at adding die-packs, stitching the swatch to the card, adding microfibers to the card and even sealing the edges, but the costs tied to these are pretty extreme to say the least. We discussed it and I'm of the belief these extra costs are not worth putting in because ultimately, you will end up paying for some of that.

We have taken preventative action and made scans before, but that too is very difficult as the timing on everything is so tight and counts need to be taken anytime you move cards. Additionally, you do not want to risk damaging the cards during that process either. We want to limit the handling of higher-end cards like this as much as possible. It sounds so easy, but when you do it, you realize what a big deal it is to pull off.

It’s tough, as you know where there is money to be made there are always those who are looking to take advantage. These people just care about the fast buck and after they’ve been kicked off e-bay, message boards and threatened with legal action, they pop up again under a different name. In my opinion they are like cockroaches. Luckily there are more of us than there are of them to shine a light on what they do. So on behalf of Upper Deck and myself as a sports card afficianado, thank you for any and all of your efforts to deter this practice and make examples of these people.

Chris
 
Nice work to the HI crack squad in pulling this guy out of the walls

I seriously hope that someone can prosecute this guy but, if not, I would think that as these cases pop up more and more, the guilty parties will find it harder and harder to do what they do.

Keep up the good work everyone and, truthfully, thanks Upper Deck for stepping up and joining in. I know you guys get banged on a lot here but its nice to know that you are watching and actively involved in the process.
 
Now while I appreciate the response from Chris about this matter could UD not solve many problems by quickly taking pictures or scans of the higher end cards and make these available to the public via the UD website. Before pack out all they would have to do would be to lay them out on a table and quickly snap a few pics... problem solved. If there are any damage replacements made then update the info. I'm pretty sure that maybe a few hours of work would solve a mountain of headaches for collectors. Is this not possible???
 

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