Leaf Exclusive Nico Hischier

[steen101984]

I don't think Upper Deck is the reason for the drop in value there. That'd be like me saying I wouldn't be able to get back 50% of what I put into my Josh Gorges collection at this point. LOL

It's just a commentary on how very few normal cards nowadays hold their value for a long term investment type purchase, unless its graded vintage rookies. Besides Steen has been and is still a 50-60 point guy that plays in every situation, as an assistant captain and fan favourite on a talented team. He's been this way for 5-7 years now. He's far from being a buyout candidate on a floundering team like Gorges.

 

[notoriousrob101]

I collect Bure and the value of ITG cards have halved over the past couple years and the UD cards have doubled. Not many people want a sticker headshot air brushed logo. I recently saw a Bure sticker auto 1/1 from Leaf sell for $100 cad, that's laughable. Meanwhile a sticker auto /5 from Artifacts went for $200 cad.

I'm not sure what experiences you've had but Leaf in my experiences Leaf boxes offer 2-3 times the value a UD box offers unless you hit Mcdavid or Matthews. There's only so many times you can pay 120 for a box and hit a Ronald Kenins auto before you stop banging your head against a wall.

If you're talking about the re-sale side of things i get it but I had a huge Alex Steen collection that was 80-90 percent UD and the value didn't hold at all. I was lucky to get 40% back on a lot of cards. Not much UD stuff holds value unless its a SPA FWA, Cup RPA or sometimes YG of a great player. I had a crosby 5 player patch /7. It was worth 3-400 back when i first had it. I found it in a box a year ago and it sold for 150.

 

[steen101984]

I collect Bure and the value of ITG cards have halved over the past couple years and the UD cards have doubled. Not many people want a sticker headshot air brushed logo. I recently saw a Bure sticker auto 1/1 from Leaf sell for $100 cad, that's laughable. Meanwhile a sticker auto /5 from Artifacts went for $200 cad.

That is due to the whole extenuating circumstances with the vault situation. A lot of very sought after very hard to acquire ITG cards were all of the sudden everywhere. I picked up several for 20 or so dollars that would have been way out of my range previously.

Bure is also a very well done thing by both companies in that his autos are usually SP'd and he doesnt sign a ton. The players imo that are having their autos go down in price are current stars (Kane, Price, Stamkos etc) and UD exclusives (Gretzky, Howe (RIP), Crosby, Orr). Someone above has said that they are limiting the Crosby's this year and thats a really good start to bringing the value back up IMO.

 

[notoriousrob101]

Oh yes that's correct. Brian Price dumbing all those extra cards on the market. What a guy. Kinda makes you wonder how many Presidents choice cards are in the vault

 

[steen101984]

Oh yes that's correct. Brian Price dumbing all those extra cards on the market. What a guy. Kinda makes you wonder how many Presidents choice cards are in the vault

I'm not sure that's how it happened but your mind seems to be made up already.

 

[RGM81]

It's just a commentary on how very few normal cards nowadays hold their value for a long term investment type purchase, unless its graded vintage rookies. Besides Steen has been and is still a 50-60 point guy that plays in every situation, as an assistant captain and fan favourite on a talented team. He's been this way for 5-7 years now. He's far from being a buyout candidate on a floundering team like Gorges.

That's neither new nor newsworthy. There's maybe 8 guys in the NHL today that are remotely close to "long-term investment type purchase" and it's not their "normal cards" that go into the vault. There's maybe 10 cards produced per year that would that category.

If that's your objective, Sidney Crosby should be your start and maybe even end point. If you're looking to have a good time collecting cards of players you like and $$$ aren't all you see, people who collect players like Steen and Gorges are on the right track and hopefully for the right reasons. We aren't the ones that pull the trigger on trades from A+ markets, after all.

 

[notoriousrob101]

I'm not sure that's how it happened but your mind seems to be made up already.

How did it happen? He owned a lot of extra copies made and they hit the market through various ways? You can try and slice it any way that makes you feel comfortable. That's the net result of you being able to pick up cheap Bure cards

 

[wkoch530]

I will buy from whatever company actually puts blues in their product. With no rookies in 16-17 and Tarasenko not being a signer UD has just given up. There are less blues cards in 16-17 product as a whole than the leafs have in any given single product.

Granted this problem won't exist next year with Schmaltz and Barbashev, but it has basically stopped me from buying anything this season.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[charnick]

I apologize ahead of time if this post comes off as salty and insulting, I certainly mean nothing personally... but boo-fricking-hoo. None of these card companies owe you anything, and it's not like someone's keeping your precious Patrick/Hischier mega-patch limited auto cup fwa /99 from you.

I have a totally different POV from a lot of guys on this board, as last year was the first year I decided to pay strict attention to a full year's worth of releases when I decided to PC Eichel. I'm probably one of the top 5 Eichel collectors out there, and proud of it, and quite frankly I don't give 2 shhhh about not having a licensed pack-pulled auto of his. I collect the kid, and pick up only cards of his I truly dig (and most of the low-end stuff because it's cheap). My collection has a number of great looking Leaf cards, both autos and GU, along with a number of the great UD cards as well. I have no particular brand loyalty, again, I get what I dig. I have on-card Leaf autos of him in a BU uni, and Team USA jersey as well. Leaf also had their private signing with him, and I have great unique autos of his on my BU team-issued card and a UD draft booklet. Love my collection.

So what you can't get a licensed auto of them, and why on earth you'd let it affect your collecting, is beyond me. If one of these guys get a sweet looking on-card Superlative auto from Leaf that looks great and does a good job of obfuscating a logo-less picture, you're really gonna let that stop you from purchasing it, just because it wasn't made by UD? Not to mention think of the money you'll save too, btw! I mean some of you argue that because Eichel YG's cost just as much as a signed Leaf card, that it's somehow a *bad* thing? Seriously? You guys are complaining that cards are becoming more affordable? Huh?

None of these card companies owe you jack! (pun intended.) And most of the people I've seen who are complaining are set collectors/rookie collectors who don't give a damn about Jack Eichel himself, they only care about the "gap" in their collection. To that I say, waaaaaah! I don't mean to rip their way of collecting, really I don't, but the entitlement is beyond the pale to me. "Oh poor me, I have 30 Cup RPA's from 2015-16 but Eichel's isn't signed, my collection will never be complete!" Your OCD being triggered by one lone unsigned card in your collection is on you, not the card companies!

Gimme a break, your collection is complete, the card doesn't exist and no one is keeping something from you that someone else is getting. You don't care about the player personally anyway, so why care if Leaf makes him sign stickers til his hand falls off? Because you think you're being deprived of something you're not entitled to in the first place? I just don't get it.

Again, I don't mean to sound as insulting as this is coming off, but to bring it back around to your Devils angle... look, I bet Leaf will be doing private signings with these guys like they did with Eichel, and you can pick your favorite UD to get signed if you so desire. That's *true* choice! You can have a unique piece in your collection no one else does, and doesn't that make it a little more special than yet another /199 sticker auto or event-used relic GARBAGE that UD will poop out, which is actually /5999 when you add up all the autos they'll have of any one guy in the first place?

As a Devils fan, this is a complete and utter disaster.

Not being able to chase quality autographed cards of NJ's #1 pick, be it Patrick or Hischier is definitely a low blow.

We were essentially deprived of Jack Eichel's rookie year cards, and it is funny to see that an Eichel YG, even after the over-saturation from extra ePack stock, still outsells most Leaf Eichel autographs.

I am not familiar with all of the ins and outs of the business, but why Leaf would hold the hobby hostage with the Eichel exclusive and then use sticker autographs on almost every card makes zero sense.

One can admire the "good fight" that Leaf is putting up against the monopoly that UD holds, but I don't think perception is reality. We see a lot of enthusiasm around leaf releases in threads, but nobody appears to be backing that up where it counts.

In many cases, there is better design work being done by dedicated collectors, and Leaf, like ITG before them, has done little to adapt, clinging to the same vintage content and tired formats that a pocket of collectors enjoy.

If you want to "bring down UD", and are upset with the state of the hobby, then stick it to them. Pay attention to what collectors are looking for. Find something unique that you can offer, even without a license. People need to be enticed to say "I am going to buy Leaf instead of UD", and nothing that has been done to date seems to have worked.

I believe that UD had the perfect response to Leaf's Eichel exclusive with his YG and Canvas YG's. The photos they used created two absolutely iconic cards that every collector should own, and the fact that these unsigned, licensed cards outsell low numbered, unlicensed signed cards should sound huge alarm bells.

If UD needs to be held to a higher standard as the big bad wolf of the industry, then so does the company that now holds exclusives with not only Eichel, but the top two picks of this year's draft, regardless of whether they are named Matthews, McDavid or Patrick and Hischier.

There is a huge opportunity here for Leaf, and it is time to do it right, or not at all.

 

[steveottfan]

I apologize ahead of time if this post comes off as salty and insulting, I certainly mean nothing personally... but boo-fricking-hoo. None of these card companies owe you anything, and it's not like someone's keeping your precious Patrick/Hischier mega-patch limited auto cup fwa /99 from you.

I have a totally different POV from a lot of guys on this board, as last year was the first year I decided to pay strict attention to a full year's worth of releases when I decided to PC Eichel. I'm probably one of the top 5 Eichel collectors out there, and proud of it, and quite frankly I don't give 2 shhhh about not having a licensed pack-pulled auto of his. I collect the kid, and pick up only cards of his I truly dig (and most of the low-end stuff because it's cheap). My collection has a number of great looking Leaf cards, both autos and GU, along with a number of the great UD cards as well. I have no particular brand loyalty, again, I get what I dig. I have on-card Leaf autos of him in a BU uni, and Team USA jersey as well. Leaf also had their private signing with him, and I have great unique autos of his on my BU team-issued card and a UD draft booklet. Love my collection.

So what you can't get a licensed auto of them, and why on earth you'd let it affect your collecting, is beyond me. If one of these guys get a sweet looking on-card Superlative auto from Leaf that looks great and does a good job of obfuscating a logo-less picture, you're really gonna let that stop you from purchasing it, just because it wasn't made by UD? Not to mention think of the money you'll save too, btw! I mean some of you argue that because Eichel YG's cost just as much as a signed Leaf card, that it's somehow a *bad* thing? Seriously? You guys are complaining that cards are becoming more affordable? Huh?

None of these card companies owe you jack! (pun intended.) And most of the people I've seen who are complaining are set collectors/rookie collectors who don't give a damn about Jack Eichel himself, they only care about the "gap" in their collection. To that I say, waaaaaah! I don't mean to rip their way of collecting, really I don't, but the entitlement is beyond the pale to me. "Oh poor me, I have 30 Cup RPA's from 2015-16 but Eichel's isn't signed, my collection will never be complete!" Your OCD being triggered by one lone unsigned card in your collection is on you, not the card companies!

Gimme a break, your collection is complete, the card doesn't exist and no one is keeping something from you that someone else is getting. You don't care about the player personally anyway, so why care if Leaf makes him sign stickers til his hand falls off? Because you think you're being deprived of something you're not entitled to in the first place? I just don't get it.

Again, I don't mean to sound as insulting as this is coming off, but to bring it back around to your Devils angle... look, I bet Leaf will be doing private signings with these guys like they did with Eichel, and you can pick your favorite UD to get signed if you so desire. That's *true* choice! You can have a unique piece in your collection no one else does, and doesn't that make it a little more special than yet another /199 sticker auto or event-used relic GARBAGE that UD will poop out, which is actually /5999 when you add up all the autos they'll have of any one guy in the first place?

:clap:

I have a Leaf Jack Eichel autograph on the way for my collection and it looks great. You summed it up well, collect what you like. I have thousands and thousands of autographs from all card companies of all years and the sheer variety is something I treasure. I buy nothing but autographs yet I'll never understand the hatred towards sticker autographs. As long as the autograph stays on the sticker, I don't see a problem with it. Whats the difference? He signed a tiny sticker or a tiny piece of cardboard, its still an original signature. Paper cuts are some of the most treasured and well designed of autographs, how much are they really different from a sticker? The player still took the time to sign it. Its not like he 'handled' the card either. You'd think Leaf committed a crime by having him sign stickers, just like every other company does these days for every other player. Ever think its actually easier and favoured by the players? Its not like they need the cash here. More to the point, I'm a big autograph guy yet stickers don't bother me. Everyone is different. Collect for the joy, not the money, and you'll be ok.

 

[cygnusx1]

Personally what I find most entertaining is that the majority of experts have Patrick and Hischier pegged as second liners at best. While Leaf signing them to exclusives will certainly bring their value down, it's not like they're great anyways.

Mostly I feel disappointed in myself for reading through 9 pages of this garbage. 90% of you need to just grow up lol

 

[NJDEVILS30]

First of all, I'm glad that you are enjoying your collection, as in the end, that is what this is all about. Congratulations on so many great cards of an equally great player.

The Devils logo has always captivated me, and seeing it on cards that I spend my hard earned hobby dollars on is very important. You may be able to appreciate the the 15/16 Leaf Trinity Eichel autographed card, for example, but to me, it lacks character and artistic flare.

Most importantly, it is missing all that the NHL logo brings to the table. When I look at a Brodeur card, I see my childhood hero and am brought back to all of those battles that I fought alongside him as I watched on TV. When I see a Scott Stevens card, I see a warrior and the ultimate leader - seeing his Devils jersey reminds me instantly of the cups, the hits and everything in between.

No unlicensed card will ever be able to capture that emotion, and I often spend the first few seconds seeing one of these items trying to figure out who is pictured, who he plays for, and filling in the blanks myself. Upper Deck, love them or hate them, have made cards over the years that have given me chills. Take the 07/8 Stanley Cup Signatures card of Jason Arnott, for example - truly a masterpiece to any Devils fan.

I never expressed entitlement to licensed autographed cards of the Devils #1 pick, but simply disappointment that I won't see them. You're right - I can send in my favourite Upper Deck RC of Patrick or Hischier to Leaf and create a unique collectible, but I often wondered as to the motive behind such private signings in the first place. Having Leaf formally invite me to send in copies of a card made by another company, and to pay them to have him sign it seems to be an admission that they are not doing said player justice with their own designs - obviously there are many different ways that you can interpret that strategy, though.

I apologize ahead of time if this post comes off as salty and insulting, I certainly mean nothing personally... but boo-fricking-hoo. None of these card companies owe you anything, and it's not like someone's keeping your precious Patrick/Hischier mega-patch limited auto cup fwa /99 from you.

I have a totally different POV from a lot of guys on this board, as last year was the first year I decided to pay strict attention to a full year's worth of releases when I decided to PC Eichel. I'm probably one of the top 5 Eichel collectors out there, and proud of it, and quite frankly I don't give 2 shhhh about not having a licensed pack-pulled auto of his. I collect the kid, and pick up only cards of his I truly dig (and most of the low-end stuff because it's cheap). My collection has a number of great looking Leaf cards, both autos and GU, along with a number of the great UD cards as well. I have no particular brand loyalty, again, I get what I dig. I have on-card Leaf autos of him in a BU uni, and Team USA jersey as well. Leaf also had their private signing with him, and I have great unique autos of his on my BU team-issued card and a UD draft booklet. Love my collection.

So what you can't get a licensed auto of them, and why on earth you'd let it affect your collecting, is beyond me. If one of these guys get a sweet looking on-card Superlative auto from Leaf that looks great and does a good job of obfuscating a logo-less picture, you're really gonna let that stop you from purchasing it, just because it wasn't made by UD? Not to mention think of the money you'll save too, btw! I mean some of you argue that because Eichel YG's cost just as much as a signed Leaf card, that it's somehow a *bad* thing? Seriously? You guys are complaining that cards are becoming more affordable? Huh?

None of these card companies owe you jack! (pun intended.) And most of the people I've seen who are complaining are set collectors/rookie collectors who don't give a damn about Jack Eichel himself, they only care about the "gap" in their collection. To that I say, waaaaaah! I don't mean to rip their way of collecting, really I don't, but the entitlement is beyond the pale to me. "Oh poor me, I have 30 Cup RPA's from 2015-16 but Eichel's isn't signed, my collection will never be complete!" Your OCD being triggered by one lone unsigned card in your collection is on you, not the card companies!

Gimme a break, your collection is complete, the card doesn't exist and no one is keeping something from you that someone else is getting. You don't care about the player personally anyway, so why care if Leaf makes him sign stickers til his hand falls off? Because you think you're being deprived of something you're not entitled to in the first place? I just don't get it.

Again, I don't mean to sound as insulting as this is coming off, but to bring it back around to your Devils angle... look, I bet Leaf will be doing private signings with these guys like they did with Eichel, and you can pick your favorite UD to get signed if you so desire. That's *true* choice! You can have a unique piece in your collection no one else does, and doesn't that make it a little more special than yet another /199 sticker auto or event-used relic GARBAGE that UD will poop out, which is actually /5999 when you add up all the autos they'll have of any one guy in the first place?

 

[rwong]

My last box of Leaf had a Howe 1/1, fedorov /12, Modano /12, and a leafs stick Rack 4 /25, while my last SPA box had an auto of Tolchinsky and a 15-16 Auto of Martin Biron. I'm glad Leaf is in this game as an alternative and I hope they continue to grow. Just please don't be like upper deck and water the product Down to minimum possible value. I know when I get a box of Leaf I may not get a 1/1 or a superstar (although I've gotten many). I at least know I'm going to get something nice for my $100-125. I mean, let's be honest name an UD product with guaranteed value. Not even UD 1 anymore since the prices have gone so high the last two years.....

My last SPA box yielded me a Oliver Kylinton FW auto and 15-16 SOTT Krejic auto, and that is after the wholesalers had jacked up the price and the retailer upped the price to $200. Probably a lot better off to buy a box of Stickwork or something...

 

[charnick]

Thanks for responding, and again, sorry if I came off rude. I respect your passion for your team, even if I'm actually a Ranger fan! And maybe that's one of the reasons not having a license on Eichel cards is OK by me, I just don't care about the Sabres in general to give a hoot. Lord knows if this happened to a Ranger pick, I'd probably be disappointed too, especially considering the jersey has the word mark on it, and to airbrush it all out would *really* be one heck of a drawback.

I guess I was more focusing my comments at those set/rookie collectors I've seen over the past year act exactly the way I described. Didn't mean to lump you in with them, but it's really been chapping me for a while now, guys complaining about Eichel this, Eichel that, when they don't give a you-know-what about the player, just selfish about their own collections.

And I dig what you're saying about Leaf's private signings, it's a very valid point, but at least it is an option, and a opportunity to get that elusive licensed auto. And in the case of Eichel, if Leaf didn't have exclusive with him, I'd probably never have the chance to have my BU team-issued card signed by him (in red ink to boot!)

Whatever happens next year, hopefully you'll have the chance to get a card that makes you feel like you do with your Brodeurs and you Stevenseses. And Jay Pandolfo too, just because BU!

First of all, I'm glad that you are enjoying your collection, as in the end, that is what this is all about. Congratulations on so many great cards of an equally great player.

The Devils logo has always captivated me, and seeing it on cards that I spend my hard earned hobby dollars on is very important. You may be able to appreciate the the 15/16 Leaf Trinity Eichel autographed card, for example, but to me, it lacks character and artistic flare.

Most importantly, it is missing all that the NHL logo brings to the table. When I look at a Brodeur card, I see my childhood hero and am brought back to all of those battles that I fought alongside him as I watched on TV. When I see a Scott Stevens card, I see a warrior and the ultimate leader - seeing his Devils jersey reminds me instantly of the cups, the hits and everything in between.

No unlicensed card will ever be able to capture that emotion, and I often spend the first few seconds seeing one of these items trying to figure out who is pictured, who he plays for, and filling in the blanks myself. Upper Deck, love them or hate them, have made cards over the years that have given me chills. Take the 07/8 Stanley Cup Signatures card of Jason Arnott, for example - truly a masterpiece to any Devils fan.

I never expressed entitlement to licensed autographed cards of the Devils #1 pick, but simply disappointment that I won't see them. You're right - I can send in my favourite Upper Deck RC of Patrick or Hischier to Leaf and create a unique collectible, but I often wondered as to the motive behind such private signings in the first place. Having Leaf formally invite me to send in copies of a card made by another company, and to pay them to have him sign it seems to be an admission that they are not doing said player justice with their own designs - obviously there are many different ways that you can interpret that strategy, though.

 

[LeafCeo]

That's not what any of us are saying. This is a capitalist world and good for you for doing what yo think is best for your company. But don't tell us the exclusives suck and are terrible for the hobby and then continue to sign them. Do you really not see what's so hypocritical about that?

The problem is that this is the only solution to the craziness that is exclusives.

If we do nothing, they never end.

If we do something drastic like this, UD has to consider the ramifications of their actions (exclusives).

Would I rather not use the exclusives to achieve this end, yes....

But to end the nuclear arms race, it requires everyone ramping up their arms so that the threat of continued negative behavior has consequences to all the players (manufacturers in this case).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[LeafCeo]

First of all, I'm glad that you are enjoying your collection, as in the end, that is what this is all about. Congratulations on so many great cards of an equally great player.



The Devils logo has always captivated me, and seeing it on cards that I spend my hard earned hobby dollars on is very important. You may be able to appreciate the the 15/16 Leaf Trinity Eichel autographed card, for example, but to me, it lacks character and artistic flare.



Most importantly, it is missing all that the NHL logo brings to the table. When I look at a Brodeur card, I see my childhood hero and am brought back to all of those battles that I fought alongside him as I watched on TV. When I see a Scott Stevens card, I see a warrior and the ultimate leader - seeing his Devils jersey reminds me instantly of the cups, the hits and everything in between.



No unlicensed card will ever be able to capture that emotion, and I often spend the first few seconds seeing one of these items trying to figure out who is pictured, who he plays for, and filling in the blanks myself. Upper Deck, love them or hate them, have made cards over the years that have given me chills. Take the 07/8 Stanley Cup Signatures card of Jason Arnott, for example - truly a masterpiece to any Devils fan.



I never expressed entitlement to licensed autographed cards of the Devils #1 pick, but simply disappointment that I won't see them. You're right - I can send in my favourite Upper Deck RC of Patrick or Hischier to Leaf and create a unique collectible, but I often wondered as to the motive behind such private signings in the first place. Having Leaf formally invite me to send in copies of a card made by another company, and to pay them to have him sign it seems to be an admission that they are not doing said player justice with their own designs - obviously there are many different ways that you can interpret that strategy, though.

The "motive" as you describe it is to not deprive collectors of a chance to own these cards signed. Another point that goes to my sincerity in this whole process.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[webottew]

The problem is that this is the only solution to the craziness that is exclusives.

If we do nothing, they never end.

If we do something drastic like this, UD has to consider the ramifications of their actions (exclusives).

Would I rather not use the exclusives to achieve this end, yes....

But to end the nuclear arms race, it requires everyone ramping up their arms so that the threat of continued negative behavior has consequences to all the players (manufacturers in this case).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You may see yourself as 1980's Team USA taking on the evil Soviet Union in the nuclear arms race. However, right or wrong, many collectors see you more as modern day Team Iran or North Korea, building a nuke to be heard within the Hobby World. Similarly, your arms race has a destabilizing effect on the Hobby. It's all matter of perspective

 

[foley2k]

If we do something drastic like this, UD has to consider the ramifications of their actions (exclusives).

The only thing UD considers is who is next on their list to sign before you do. Than you do it to them, and they do you, and on and on and on.
The winner is who has deeper pockets to sign the most wanted signatures.

The collectors are the ones who lose here no matter who signs who to an exclusive. In order to keep signing exclusives and make it worth while, you need to recoup that cost. The only way to do that is mark up your product, which most I find too much to spend money on (again both UD and Leaf).
Seems in the past couple of years the only thing either company cares about is tossing out whatever they can to get the group breakers happy. 99% of everything released has lacked design, thought, QA, and majority of customers in mind.

This "I have bigger balls than you" attitude (from both UD and Leaf) is getting old and driving people away from current product, and out of the hobby all together. Pull people in with innovation, design, and what collectors want. You can put a Crosby or Eichel signature on a turd, I still won't buy it. Put it on a card that looks nice, and has some originality on it, than you got me thinking "hmmm dam thats a nice looking card".

 

[piper1]

There is apparently no middle ground to this as many of the flippers are angry and the real collectors could care less. Time to move on, end of story.

 

[geschrocks33]

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

-Mahatma Gandhi