One-of-One? I Don't Think So!

[cards-gotta-go]

I'd never collect plates for this type of reason - it's too easy for a company to mistakenly (or deliberately) have this happen.

The BBB won't help much, and UD wants to cover their tracks... meh, take nothing from them... they'd probably send you the 2 worst packs in the entire run.

 

[lumm0x]

Unless you are a BBB member there is nothing they can do to you other than curse you out in the closet that is their sphere of influence.

Good luck to you. Your pursuit may be futile but I admire that you are standing up for your principles and not just throwing your arms in the air as almost everyone else does.

 

[The Great Zo]

I'd never collect plates for this type of reason - it's too easy for a company to mistakenly (or deliberately) have this happen.

I don't see how it's any easier than accidentally release multiple plate 1/1s than it is to accidentally release regular 1/1s.

 

[JTMcCool]

Not to be mean, but the Better Business Bureau won't be able to do anything useful. I certainly wish you luck in your endevour, but I hope you realize the long odds of actually accomplishing anything. However, one avenue you may want to pursue is to contact the Ontario Consumer Protection Branch at 1-800-889-9768. I don't know that they'll be able to help you, but it's worth a shot.

 

[OilersRule]

Although I understand your frustration with this incident, I think you've hit the end of the road with this issue you have with the monster that is UD.

You say you spent over $100 on the plates and countless hours finding them. So now you want to sue them in small claims court, pay $100's in legal fees at least, spend possibly countless hours in court, for the end result that they admit they were wrong? If by some miracle you did win, what would be your demand for compensation? A judge will ask you what you paid for the cards and will award you that if anything.

I think we have all been duped by UD in our time and we all wish we could stick it back to them, but my instinct tells me a judge does not spend much time dealing with this case if it were to be presented.

I'm not trying to steal your thunder or anything, but I think you're best option would be to mail a formal complaint in writing to the company and hope someone else other than a CSR answers you.

But again I have to ask. what is it that you are hoping to gain from all this?
Whatever the end result, I do hope it works out in your favor.

thanks for the well wishes i have never dealt with the BBB before so i dont know how they will help but if they dont then my plan at this time is to sue Upper Deck in small claims court here in Canada. I dont think they would like that publicity very much and maybe i can bring this issue to light with the NHL/NHLPA

 

[meatmancgy]

There are no legal fees in small claims court. You pay the filing fees with your documentation, and get in front of a judge shortly thereafter.

 

[justinanika]

Its kinda like going on Judge Judy. Hey theres an Idea!!

Jai - I dont think he could get the two worst packs because Im pretty sure I got them!!

And good luck with taking on UD, I agree something should be done about some of their practices. I understand multiple plates may need to have been made but when a plate is finished it should be destroyed leaving 1 plate at the end to ship out as a 1/1

 

[jab16399]

I know I have been a big UD skeptic lately with the 06/07 Beehive Gold mess, but I know the normal process for plates is to have them chemically washed and reused. Only in the last couple of years did just about every plate get made into a card. From the manufacturing perspective, I understand why a business would fabricate multiple plates for any print run. It would be like risking the entire automotive production line on one robotic welder. Good Risk Management means having some spare consumable parts. Blah Blah Blah, but given it just makes good sense to have spare printing plates and the plan is to wash the hopefully unused spares, it could be that they actually swapped out the first plate and really used the second for some reason (warping). This would mean they are both actual printing plates for the set. Given that the dies for shipping plates existed already and said "1/1", it wouldn't have been worth making a new die for the plate cards as 1/2 uniquely right? I see a grey area here where a the person that takes the plate and glues it into the card framings might get the same plate twice a few weeks apart and not realize it. Am I babbling...

 

[cards-gotta-go]

I don't see how it's any easier than accidentally release multiple plate 1/1s than it is to accidentally release regular 1/1s.

Because in my little mind, the REAL 1/1s usually get a little more care and attention... plates are not always clear and sometimes hard to identify, especially if one of the 4 colours isn't used a lot in that card...

There I go again... putting the word "care" in a post about Upper Deck...

I'm gonna go lie down.

 

[str8jkt]

Also you have a pretty good chance of winning in small claims court. A while back I had to go through it to take a travel agency to court over a botched vacation (they switched us resorts last minute and the resort was nowhere near comparable to what we had originally booked).

Long story short I prepared my *** off for the court hearing with pictures, documentation, etc.. and when I showed up the court asked what I was asking for (half of the vacation cost back) which I was promptly awarded by default as the travel company never showed. I'm thinking the same would probably happen if you ever had to take Upper Deck to court. A no show by UD as its not worth their time to send a lawyer or representative to court to argue a $1000 claim...

Again no guarantees, just stating what happened with my one experience with small claims. In retrospect I am wishing I had asked for the entire amount back but now I'm just being greedy ;-)

 

[OilersRule]

I guess I misworded my original statement that it was court fees not legal fees. Maybe str8jkt can confirm but isn't the court fees like around $300 or something?

In any regard, could you clarify what it is you would be asking for as compensation? The card is a 1/1 but has no presumed value and I'm pretty sure you would be asked what you paid for the card, as the judge will probably be thinking you want the money back that you spent on the reproduced card, which if I remember you saying was like a $100.

I guess I am missing some of the facts here to justify your reasonings here for taking this to small claims, but I do hope you can show them up in court as UD needs to have a wake-up call as I think they abuse their whole licensing agreement...case-in-point!

 

[str8jkt]

I guess I misworded my original statement that it was court fees not legal fees. Maybe str8jkt can confirm but isn't the court fees like around $300 or something?

In any regard, could you clarify what it is you would be asking for as compensation? The card is a 1/1 but has no presumed value and I'm pretty sure you would be asked what you paid for the card, as the judge will probably be thinking you want the money back that you spent on the reproduced card, which if I remember you saying was like a $100.

I guess I am missing some of the facts here to justify your reasonings here for taking this to small claims, but I do hope you can show them up in court as UD needs to have a wake-up call as I think they abuse their whole licensing agreement...case-in-point!

Court fee's weren't anything big if I remember correctly. Think it was 15 or 25 bucks or something and I believe that money was even covered since I won the case? Again foggy on the details and this may have changed since it was over 5 years ago....

And to clarify the judge asked me how much I was asking for, quick summary of why I wanted that amount and then judged in my favour. Never had to prove I even took the vacation....

 

[cardz1976]

Good luck with this... I hope it all turns out for you.

 

[will-411]

I wish you all the luck, but to play a little devils advocate...

I understand the issue of doubling up on the printing plates. There are two of each, but each one was stamped as a 1/1 which should authenticate that it is 'unique'. Well, I put to you, that despite the look of the plate being similar, each one is unique and has it's own minor imperfections and wear. If UD advertised that there would only be 4 of each printed and there were 8 printed, that's one thing, but to say the doubles are not unique is fundamentally incorrect.

On a personal note, I don't consider printing plates as cards, even if they are packaged as such. They're printing plates.

I also question a common thought that I read in a lot of threads in that UD is obligated to destroy product that isn't inserted or sold, or waste material from the printing process. It doesn't make sense to me from a business front why you would destroy inventory and assets. I understand the collectors side and expectations, but for better or worse, that's not what governs the hobby.

Again, good luck with your undertaking, and I hope you can make something positive happen for the hobbyists!

Cory

 

[geplimestone]

this thread is a very interesting read, and i hope that it stays clean so it can stay around for others to see,

my take on sueing them,i think if 25-50 people were to take UD up in small claims court and either win OR loose(it would'nt matter) the big suits at upperdeck would be suggesting they clean up there act pretty fast, not only would there already worthless rep be taking a turn even worse but those "small" amounts collectors would be winning would add up pretty fast just thinking about how many horror stories i've heard just alone,i mean think about it 100 collectors at $1000 each is 100K that means something to upperdeck and 100 is'nt even close to how many people would file lawsuits once word got around about everything.....it was suggested to me not so long ago that i sue the NHL/NHLPA or whomever is responcable for the draft redemptions as i still hold an active un-redeemed card and have'nt had an email returned in about 6 months, sure it's not worth me suing them $$$ wise but it'd be all about the Principle, and i'm willing to wager that if even a handful of collectors started suing and winning it'd start a HUGE chain reaction and make things happen pretty quick......maybe thats just a pipe dream but i think it could work....and still something i think about doing......the more and more i read about these things the closer i am to walking down to they local court house and filing suit......i sure hope the powers at be see this thread as they could save themselves a real hassle in the future.....


thanks, Geoff

 

[slckrsx]

Just remember if you go to smalls claims court and win it is your responsibility to collect whatever you win from UD. If they don't pay you have to go through the trouble of making them pay. I went through this about two months ago and the fee to file is $75 in case you are interested.

 

[steen101984]

I wish you all the luck, but to play a little devils advocate...

I understand the issue of doubling up on the printing plates. There are two of each, but each one was stamped as a 1/1 which should authenticate that it is 'unique'. Well, I put to you, that despite the look of the plate being similar, each one is unique and has it's own minor imperfections and wear. If UD advertised that there would only be 4 of each printed and there were 8 printed, that's one thing, but to say the doubles are not unique is fundamentally incorrect.

On a personal note, I don't consider printing plates as cards, even if they are packaged as such. They're printing plates.

I also question a common thought that I read in a lot of threads in that UD is obligated to destroy product that isn't inserted or sold, or waste material from the printing process. It doesn't make sense to me from a business front why you would destroy inventory and assets. I understand the collectors side and expectations, but for better or worse, that's not what governs the hobby.

Again, good luck with your undertaking, and I hope you can make something positive happen for the hobbyists!

Cory

by that logic if i cut a card in half it is essentially a 1/1 because it has minor (or in this case major) imperfections but thats not the case the card would be useless. Plus on the back they say black/yellow and both copies read the exact same

 

[steen101984]

this thread is a very interesting read, and i hope that it stays clean so it can stay around for others to see,

my take on sueing them,i think if 25-50 people were to take UD up in small claims court and either win OR loose(it would'nt matter) the big suits at upperdeck would be suggesting they clean up there act pretty fast, not only would there already worthless rep be taking a turn even worse but those "small" amounts collectors would be winning would add up pretty fast just thinking about how many horror stories i've heard just alone,i mean think about it 100 collectors at $1000 each is 100K that means something to upperdeck and 100 is'nt even close to how many people would file lawsuits once word got around about everything.....it was suggested to me not so long ago that i sue the NHL/NHLPA or whomever is responcable for the draft redemptions as i still hold an active un-redeemed card and have'nt had an email returned in about 6 months, sure it's not worth me suing them $$$ wise but it'd be all about the Principle, and i'm willing to wager that if even a handful of collectors started suing and winning it'd start a HUGE chain reaction and make things happen pretty quick......maybe thats just a pipe dream but i think it could work....and still something i think about doing......the more and more i read about these things the closer i am to walking down to they local court house and filing suit......i sure hope the powers at be see this thread as they could save themselves a real hassle in the future.....


thanks, Geoff

to be quite honest im hoping to cause this huge reaction by showing that David can slay Goliath maybe i will motivate others to do the same. I feel even worse for the people that have those uncut sheet redemptions that UD just decided not to make. They advertised that they were in there and no they are backing out of that claim. There are no jerseys or autos to get this was a direct result of them not wanting to produce this stuff for these collectors. I am sick of the corruption and im going to do what i can to see that they either stop screwing people or they go out of business

 

[steen101984]

Also a quick update the BBB sent out the letter this morning and this afternoon this response came back:

We have tried to help this customer multiple times. In January this customer called and spoke with me concerning these issues.(thats a lie i never talked to Barry until about 3 weeks ago) I send him a package containing what we consider fair value.(spxquad force hologram set they book at 50 each (avg) for the 5 my dealer has had two since launch) The customer is claiming to have purchased these cards at price which is extremely unlikely due to current market values.(there is no market value they are 1/1's) I believe this customer is trying to commit fraud and ask for extra items.

 

[steen101984]

Although I understand your frustration with this incident, I think you've hit the end of the road with this issue you have with the monster that is UD.

You say you spent over $100 on the plates and countless hours finding them. So now you want to sue them in small claims court, pay $100's in legal fees at least, spend possibly countless hours in court, for the end result that they admit they were wrong? If by some miracle you did win, what would be your demand for compensation? A judge will ask you what you paid for the cards and will award you that if anything.

I think we have all been duped by UD in our time and we all wish we could stick it back to them, but my instinct tells me a judge does not spend much time dealing with this case if it were to be presented.

I'm not trying to steal your thunder or anything, but I think you're best option would be to mail a formal complaint in writing to the company and hope someone else other than a CSR answers you.

But again I have to ask. what is it that you are hoping to gain from all this?
Whatever the end result, I do hope it works out in your favor.

As for my end result (i know its almost impossible but it shouldnt be) is to stop companies like this from screwing customers. Ive worked in retail and business and if i treated customers like they have treated me id be fired. One CSR there laughed at me for what i paid then told me that a cup rookie goes for 15 bucks i replied that i had one. Then he said you know u can get a hp patch/auto for 5 bucks to which i replied i have two. I said they are 1/1's so i have to pay what the owner wants or i cant get them. They should face some backlash but because they essentially have a monopoly on the hockey card industry they dont. There are no other choices. If you want the newest cards of your pc player (or my 3) u have to buy from them. If they make a claim they need to stick to it or someone needs to stick it to them.

I LOVE this hobby ive met so many awesome people on this and other sites and im doing it because in any other industry this wouldnt fly. What other hobby do u know that players going after the same card HELP each other find rare cards or throw in free stuff just because of the pleasure of trading with someone. I have met alot of self-less collectors and i know it sounds corny and Braveheart-esqe but i wanna give them a voice. We shouldnt have to take this crap.