Kyle
Verified Trader
Little to nothing was said about LaRussa and Pujols not going a few weeks ago with the Cardinals. Is that situation different? Maybe.
Thomas snubs the President......
- Thread starter Boom Boom
- Start date
tiger tiger
Verified Trader
Thomas has a right to do and say whatever he wants, and his no-show was a statement, albeit a non-verbal one. He did follow up with why he did it afterwards. But his actions give a glimpse into his character. He made the decision as an INDIVIDUAL. Doesn't sound much of a team player. Plus Thomas must have know that this day was coming as soon as he won the Cup. He could have did it quietly and been conveniently 'away on a personal matter'. But I feel that he wanted to use this to make an INDIVIDUAL political statement.
It's his right, but there is a time or place to do such things, and I don't think this is the proper place to do it. Maybe it just wasn't done discretely enough since Thomas is US born and the MVP. Would it make sense for Obama to show up with a Boston Bruins jersey at a national political press conference? Maybe when he's campaigning in the NE area. Or to tell the NHL that they need to have better rules for headshots or that Thomas' pads are too big and it's ruining the game?
There was already a debate in Canada when some politicians from the Bloc Quebeqois blasted Saku Koivu for not addressing the fans in French in addition to English. Same with the recent political debate about having a french speaking coach in Montreal. From what I know, fans didn't want politicians using their sports team as a platform for political gain. So is it okay if a player uses his team as a platform for his political views?
Can't have it both ways.
It's his right, but there is a time or place to do such things, and I don't think this is the proper place to do it. Maybe it just wasn't done discretely enough since Thomas is US born and the MVP. Would it make sense for Obama to show up with a Boston Bruins jersey at a national political press conference? Maybe when he's campaigning in the NE area. Or to tell the NHL that they need to have better rules for headshots or that Thomas' pads are too big and it's ruining the game?
There was already a debate in Canada when some politicians from the Bloc Quebeqois blasted Saku Koivu for not addressing the fans in French in addition to English. Same with the recent political debate about having a french speaking coach in Montreal. From what I know, fans didn't want politicians using their sports team as a platform for political gain. So is it okay if a player uses his team as a platform for his political views?
Can't have it both ways.
Last edited:
tiger tiger
Verified Trader
I open minded on this discussion and am more interested about how Americans feel about Thomas' actions since the White House/President is more woven into the fabric of the country.
Was it:
1) within his rights, wrong place
2) within his rights, right place
3) a non-issue, political or otherwise
Was it:
1) within his rights, wrong place
2) within his rights, right place
3) a non-issue, political or otherwise
Last edited:
MMarch
One Man Wolfpack, ,
My opinion is option 3. He's not the first athlete to do it and he won't be the last. Sorry, but to say this is a statement about his character, or that he isn't much of a team player, is pretty rich. To question his character or loyalty to his team is so far off base, and when it comes from people whose teams he had a huge part in knocking out of the playoffs recently (Montreal and Vancouver) it makes it look like sour grapes. I don't believe it is in your case specifically, but it sure doesn't look good.
JoexBondo
Verified Trader
Way to go Timmy, although if I personally had the choice I would go and ask the President face to face why he has done absolutely NOTHING in the past 3 years to better our country. If anything he's made it worse. Thats another topic I won't get into. Point being, when exercisng your freedom to make a choice is considered wrong and/or scrutinized, then we as a society are really in trouble.
The Great Zo
Verified Trader,
Well, nobody reasonable is making this into a "rights" issue. Of course he has the right to not go. It seems like some of the people who are supporting Thomas are behaving as if those who do not support Thomas' decision are trying to restrict his rights or freedom. That's simply not true.
The criticism is regarding his choice to make a team event into a political statement. He had the right to not show up with his team. He had the freedom to take steps that led to the story of the day being his political statement rather than his team's championship.
So, I suppose I'd say #1.
tiger tiger
Verified Trader
No, it's not sour grapes. There's always been something about Tim Thomas, for me, that came across as smug or arrogant. Even before they beat the Canucks. It's just a gut feeling on my part.
There's something about pushing your political views in the workplace that rubs me the wrong way. We all know that politics and religion are touchy subjects at work. It could be something that divides/segregates work relationships. To me, this had personal agenda written all over it. I would say the same if Luongo did the same thing, or if Jose Theodore did it.
There is a place to express you displeasure against the existing political system, the polling booth.
I would say the same about Tim Tebow if he decided not to go to the White House because he was opposed to Obama's support of abortion, even if I agree with him.
I find that making such a statement is less constructive towards working together to find a solution. You're entitled to your opinion, but rather than point out the problem and voice your displeasure about the current status quo, I would sooner see actions that actually could lead to dialogue, change and a solution.
Last edited:
You don't have to respect the man - but you should respect the office.
pwag31
Verified Trader,
I was waiting to see what his reasoning was before making my mind up on this. He has the right not to go, and good for him for doing what he believes in.
But if he wanted to make a comment about government growing out of control, fine , do it on one of the other 364 days in the year. I thought it was disrespectful to his teammates, and the Bruins organization to do this when he did.
Just my $.02
Paul
TanguayFan
Verified Trader,
Art,
You're the second person to say that. I'm curious the reasoning behind the sentiment?
Rob
hextall27
Verified Trader,
I don't like Thomas as a player on a rival team, but I fully support what he has done here.
He basically used the publicity to make his opinion heard. Good job TT!
We need more people like this in US and Canada.
He basically used the publicity to make his opinion heard. Good job TT!
We need more people like this in US and Canada.
Whether or not you like the man - you should still accept an invite from the leader of the country. He's still the leader of your country, show the position some respect. If you don't agree with the man, that's fine, but don't disrespect the position the man is holding.
You also don't do something like that to the team unless you WANT to bring attention to yourself.
TanguayFan
Verified Trader,
So by that theory, if he had an invite from Omar Al-Bashir, Robert Mugabe or Bashar al-Assad, he should attend that as well?
And why isn't the injured Bruin (Savard) who was not in attandance, or the player that was traded (Ryder) not being lambasted? The bottom line is, this was not a mandatory event. We may not agree with Thomas' reason for not attending, but I respect his adherence to his convictions, and his right to protest under the laws of the US Constitution.
The Great Zo
Verified Trader,
Inviting US major league sports champions to the White House is a long-standing tradition, so I'm not sure what those foreign leaders are a valid comparison. I'm going to assume you're not actually comparing Obama to a murderous dictator.
For the same reason that no one would have lambasted Thomas had he simply not attended for other, quieter reasons. By his Facebook message, and his obvious knowledge of the how the media works, he made it clear that his intention was to direct attention away from his team's championship and toward his protest. Having the right to be a selfish spoilsport is not the same as being right.
pwag31
Verified Trader,
MMarch
One Man Wolfpack, ,
It's hard to respect the "leader" of the country when he's nothing more then a liar. I know I know, every politician is a liar, but this guy took it 10 steps further. Plus, the President is not really the "leader" anyways. He may be the face of the country, but most issues are out of his hands and he does not ultimately make the final decisions on what happens.
How many men and women are still over "there" dying right now when he promised they would all be withdrawn how long ago? Last time I checked, more soldiers have gone over "there" during Obama's tenure then when Jr. was in office. His promises to the veterans of the US, past and present, have also all been swept under the carpet, and he used the past veterans to garner votes with blatant lies, then stabbed them all in the back. The guy does not deserve anyones respect, especially from the US veterans.
Last edited:
TanguayFan
Verified Trader,
No, I'm most definitely not comparing Obama to a murderous dictator. They are all however leaders of their respective countries and I was just expressing a counterpoint to Art's contention that an invite extended by the leader of a nation must be respected, (as well as the office of said leader) by virtue that they are the leader of a nation. Perhaps a little overblown comparison, but for arguments sake, a valid counterpoint nonetheless.
And again, we may not agree with TT's reasons, but as you so succinctly put it, he does have the right to be a selfish spoilsport. He is using an avenue available to him to voice his displeasure, no different than Occupy-whatever-they're-occupying-now. By commiting said act, he's created discussions on countless message boards and comment sections, and for better or for worse, he's gotten his point across, even though it conflicts with his teammates and organization. Such is the power of freedom of speech and the freedom to make personal choices based on your belief system.
I am curious, since you may bethe only person I know who collects TT, I'm curious if this issue will change your views on your collection or your future collecting habits? I would think that this issue would affect you more than any other person on these boards. I gotta admit, that you were the first person I thought of when this issue blew up.
habsheaven
Verified Trader,
I don't think we are allowed to discuss politics on the boards but this post has to be addressed. This post is completely inflammatory and full of inaccuracies.
timber09
www.lumberjackcards.com,
The conversation should have been about the Bruins and their Stanley Cup Championship, their team accomplishment and the BOSTON BRUINS being congratulated by the highest power in our land.
The conversation is now about Tim Thomas. Clearly by his statement and refusal to attend this is what he desired. Congrats Timmy, you put yourself ahead of your team.
He has the right to remove himself from the celebration, he has the right to steal that celebration from his teammates, and I have the right to think he is an idiot for doing so.
The conversation is now about Tim Thomas. Clearly by his statement and refusal to attend this is what he desired. Congrats Timmy, you put yourself ahead of your team.
He has the right to remove himself from the celebration, he has the right to steal that celebration from his teammates, and I have the right to think he is an idiot for doing so.
tiger tiger
Verified Trader
For me, it was the wrong place to make a political statement. Thing is, even now, Thomas is mum on his stance. Not sure why.
To me it's a selfish action because it promoted his individual views and took away from the team. It'd be different if he was asked individually what he thought about Obama.
The basketball player that refused to stand during the national anthem was inappropriate. Was it Rasheed Wallace that refused to go and said "Ain't my President"? That's not a slap against the current US government, IMO, it's a slap in the face of democracy.
As quoted above by Tanguay fan, "And again, we may not agree with TT's reasons, but as you so succinctly put it, he does have the right to be a selfish spoilsport." Nobody is questioning his rights and freedoms, but for me, it revealed a bit more about TT's character.
Some people have reported that TT has always been a bit standoff-ish with his teammates and is one of those old school quirky goalies that like to keep to himself. So TT may not really be concerned about what his teammates think outside of the rink.
But his silence on the issue may be in response to realization that he may have pissed off a lot of the Boston fans who are fierce Democrats, in addition to putting the Bruins organization in a bit of an awkward situation, which was handled well by Chirelli and Neely. He seized the opportunity to voice his displeasure, but now may have realized now that it was the wrong time to do it. TT's silence is creating more controversy/rumors about why he did what he did. As I said earlier, and another poster, TT could have done it quietly, but chose not to. He is the only American and the MVP. You gotta come up with some reasonable excuse. He took a stand, but now it looks like he wants to sit back down.
To me it's a selfish action because it promoted his individual views and took away from the team. It'd be different if he was asked individually what he thought about Obama.
The basketball player that refused to stand during the national anthem was inappropriate. Was it Rasheed Wallace that refused to go and said "Ain't my President"? That's not a slap against the current US government, IMO, it's a slap in the face of democracy.
As quoted above by Tanguay fan, "And again, we may not agree with TT's reasons, but as you so succinctly put it, he does have the right to be a selfish spoilsport." Nobody is questioning his rights and freedoms, but for me, it revealed a bit more about TT's character.
Some people have reported that TT has always been a bit standoff-ish with his teammates and is one of those old school quirky goalies that like to keep to himself. So TT may not really be concerned about what his teammates think outside of the rink.
But his silence on the issue may be in response to realization that he may have pissed off a lot of the Boston fans who are fierce Democrats, in addition to putting the Bruins organization in a bit of an awkward situation, which was handled well by Chirelli and Neely. He seized the opportunity to voice his displeasure, but now may have realized now that it was the wrong time to do it. TT's silence is creating more controversy/rumors about why he did what he did. As I said earlier, and another poster, TT could have done it quietly, but chose not to. He is the only American and the MVP. You gotta come up with some reasonable excuse. He took a stand, but now it looks like he wants to sit back down.
