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UD's Response to the Distribution Changes
- Thread starter MGiuseffi1969
- Start date
mully
New Member, Must Send First
my apology to hama about the card stores,it was a misinterpretation late at night and it was a mistake, i don't mean to slam any individual, it is the program that brings out the frustration in me and if i say something that offends any individual, i'm sorry
and wayne what i said about the brownies, was only meant as a possibility, if your telling me that it's a lie,i will believe you
and wayne what i said about the brownies, was only meant as a possibility, if your telling me that it's a lie,i will believe you
E
edthesandwich
Guest
I've had the pleasure of purchasing from Wayne whenever I've visited family in Barrie. I'm a sports writer (like he used to be), and it was that common thread that sparked a conversation or two during my time in his shop. Each time I have visited, I have bought at least one box from him even though that wasn't the purpose of my visit. And I always left feeling good about the experience.
That's why I got into this hobby in the first place. Because guys like Wayne make it a lot more fun. Sharing stories of monster pulls, hobby trends, what's hot and what isn't ... sure, for some people, it will always be about the money. But not with Wayne, and I'm sure it's the same for a lot of B&M shops that don't just offer product, but stories, guidance and insight.
Some people associate B&Ms with greed and chicanery. And it's true that some engage in both to the extent that it spoils the hobby. But if you owned a B&M right now and you found out that UD was on the verge of making significant changes that could cause major consternation among your purchasing base, wouldn't you be frustrated, too? Especially when collectors are suggesting that you actually stand to *benefit* from this, and then proceed to denigrate you for it?
Maybe you don't agree, and that's fine. The truth is, we don't know at all what's going to happen once this all takes effect. But I'm giving the B&Ms I frequent the benefit of the doubt, because they're the ones who keep me interested in this hobby, beyond the cards themselves. Not Beckett, or eBay, or video box breaks. It's the chance to talk about the hobby with guys like Wayne that make it less insular and more intimate. And I want he and the rest of the hard-working B&Ms to stick around for a long time.
Criticize the bad B&Ms all you want, but don't group them all together. It's short-sighted, ignorant and just plain unfair.
That's why I got into this hobby in the first place. Because guys like Wayne make it a lot more fun. Sharing stories of monster pulls, hobby trends, what's hot and what isn't ... sure, for some people, it will always be about the money. But not with Wayne, and I'm sure it's the same for a lot of B&M shops that don't just offer product, but stories, guidance and insight.
Some people associate B&Ms with greed and chicanery. And it's true that some engage in both to the extent that it spoils the hobby. But if you owned a B&M right now and you found out that UD was on the verge of making significant changes that could cause major consternation among your purchasing base, wouldn't you be frustrated, too? Especially when collectors are suggesting that you actually stand to *benefit* from this, and then proceed to denigrate you for it?
Maybe you don't agree, and that's fine. The truth is, we don't know at all what's going to happen once this all takes effect. But I'm giving the B&Ms I frequent the benefit of the doubt, because they're the ones who keep me interested in this hobby, beyond the cards themselves. Not Beckett, or eBay, or video box breaks. It's the chance to talk about the hobby with guys like Wayne that make it less insular and more intimate. And I want he and the rest of the hard-working B&Ms to stick around for a long time.
Criticize the bad B&Ms all you want, but don't group them all together. It's short-sighted, ignorant and just plain unfair.
You know lots of people from both sides make good points - and in the end we will disagree on the outcome until it is in place for a year or more.
The good Hobby stores on this site all make very good points, but only so far as it affects what they see in their world. The have fair pricing and service people - have trade nights, do things for kids & in general promote the Hobby. That is why they are in business still today and most likely will find a way to be in business tomorrow. And for the most part - they are correct in that their customers will not depart for the $10 or $15/ box that they may be paying extra in their stores.
But - those customers are not busting 20-30 or even 40 cases of product a year. At that quantity we are talking some serious cash over the course of a season of Hockey product. Do you really think that $3,500 to $4,500 means diddly??? How about for areas with no store - not even a bad one??? Will those customers pay more including shipping and whatnot??? Inevitably it will lead to reduced product or amount of production within a product. That seems ideal until you think about the added costs of production per product - which inflates prices even more.
And don't pump your chests so fast case breakers. Certainly - just like there are good stores/bad stores - there are more than a few bad case breakers as well. There a some that break early - gaining a 'I'm First' advantage as the sell their wares at auction sites. There are those that churn and burn - hell they do not even collect - and the sell items much lower than they should just so they can get a faster return on their investment. They set the market in a bad way, because it is not set by item demand, but by cash fast criteria. Heck - some even sell sets and singles a month before release - totally destroying the idea of release dates (I have a feeling that this may have played a part in UD's not posting checklists in a timely manner anymore!).
Like it or not - casebusters do serve a purpose as well. The allow certain stores - especially in the US to offer Hockey product to their customers - because they can pre-sell a portion to make buying direct worthwhile. The discounters also help to keep some of the Distributors more honest on their re-order pricing, because the Hobby shops have an outlet to get product at a reasonable price without being raped as so often happens. As mentioned above casebusters also allow UD to maintain production quantities that help lower the cost per unit of production. Poo-Poo it all you want stores - demand will certainly decrease - and if my endlessly boring classes and classes of Economics taught me anything....... that surely means cost will rise. And at a certain point - even you have to agree that will not be a good thing.
Yep - long winded as usual. And I am sure most everyone could care less. I just wish both sides would be more receptive to the big picture and quit looking at their own little world.........Hobby Shops and Casebusters alike. I have a feeling that we will find out hopefully before it is too late - that we are both needed.
Bruce
The good Hobby stores on this site all make very good points, but only so far as it affects what they see in their world. The have fair pricing and service people - have trade nights, do things for kids & in general promote the Hobby. That is why they are in business still today and most likely will find a way to be in business tomorrow. And for the most part - they are correct in that their customers will not depart for the $10 or $15/ box that they may be paying extra in their stores.
But - those customers are not busting 20-30 or even 40 cases of product a year. At that quantity we are talking some serious cash over the course of a season of Hockey product. Do you really think that $3,500 to $4,500 means diddly??? How about for areas with no store - not even a bad one??? Will those customers pay more including shipping and whatnot??? Inevitably it will lead to reduced product or amount of production within a product. That seems ideal until you think about the added costs of production per product - which inflates prices even more.
And don't pump your chests so fast case breakers. Certainly - just like there are good stores/bad stores - there are more than a few bad case breakers as well. There a some that break early - gaining a 'I'm First' advantage as the sell their wares at auction sites. There are those that churn and burn - hell they do not even collect - and the sell items much lower than they should just so they can get a faster return on their investment. They set the market in a bad way, because it is not set by item demand, but by cash fast criteria. Heck - some even sell sets and singles a month before release - totally destroying the idea of release dates (I have a feeling that this may have played a part in UD's not posting checklists in a timely manner anymore!).
Like it or not - casebusters do serve a purpose as well. The allow certain stores - especially in the US to offer Hockey product to their customers - because they can pre-sell a portion to make buying direct worthwhile. The discounters also help to keep some of the Distributors more honest on their re-order pricing, because the Hobby shops have an outlet to get product at a reasonable price without being raped as so often happens. As mentioned above casebusters also allow UD to maintain production quantities that help lower the cost per unit of production. Poo-Poo it all you want stores - demand will certainly decrease - and if my endlessly boring classes and classes of Economics taught me anything....... that surely means cost will rise. And at a certain point - even you have to agree that will not be a good thing.
Yep - long winded as usual. And I am sure most everyone could care less. I just wish both sides would be more receptive to the big picture and quit looking at their own little world.........Hobby Shops and Casebusters alike. I have a feeling that we will find out hopefully before it is too late - that we are both needed.
Bruce
cmcdonald1
Retired Mod,
I've had the pleasure of purchasing from Wayne whenever I've visited family in Barrie. I'm a sports writer (like he used to be), and it was that common thread that sparked a conversation or two during my time in his shop. Each time I have visited, I have bought at least one box from him even though that wasn't the purpose of my visit. And I always left feeling good about the experience.
That's why I got into this hobby in the first place. Because guys like Wayne make it a lot more fun. Sharing stories of monster pulls, hobby trends, what's hot and what isn't ... sure, for some people, it will always be about the money. But not with Wayne, and I'm sure it's the same for a lot of B&M shops that don't just offer product, but stories, guidance and insight.
Some people associate B&Ms with greed and chicanery. And it's true that some engage in both to the extent that it spoils the hobby. But if you owned a B&M right now and you found out that UD was on the verge of making significant changes that could cause major consternation among your purchasing base, wouldn't you be frustrated, too? Especially when collectors are suggesting that you actually stand to *benefit* from this, and then proceed to denigrate you for it?
Maybe you don't agree, and that's fine. The truth is, we don't know at all what's going to happen once this all takes effect. But I'm giving the B&Ms I frequent the benefit of the doubt, because they're the ones who keep me interested in this hobby, beyond the cards themselves. Not Beckett, or eBay, or video box breaks. It's the chance to talk about the hobby with guys like Wayne that make it less insular and more intimate. And I want he and the rest of the hard-working B&Ms to stick around for a long time.
Criticize the bad B&Ms all you want, but don't group them all together. It's short-sighted, ignorant and just plain unfair.
Is this really about supporting B&Ms or providing distributors with a license to print money? We have two LCS within 50KMs of my house, one trustworthy, one not so trustworthy (strictly my opinion based on my personal experience). One will gouge you on the price of a box or case, one will offer you the going rate based on his costs from the main distributor. I also have a close friend who has started a small business from his home selling cards, mostly at the local shows and at the local flea market. My neighbour and I will often drop into his house at night for a couple of boxes and to talk about the hobby. He is no longer able to buy from the distributor because he is not classed as a B&M.
Why I mention this is two fold; one is because of folks like him, it kept the B&M store costs at a respectable level. Now without this competition, the sky is the limit. The second reason I bring this story up is that he cannot buy from the distributor because he is not a B&M as mentioned, yet I now wonder who will sell wax at local shows, markets AND shows like the National or the big shows n TORONTO?
Will there now be a double standard and B&M owners are free to sell from any location that they deem fit or appropriate to make money?
I cannot see how this is going to be good for the hobby. Disributors, especially in Canada, will gouge us considerably, and force many to walk away for no other reason than just not being able to afford to stay in the market.
Like watching a game at the Air Canada Centre...it is now reserved for the rich, not the loyal fans
Last edited:
dlowthers
Verified Trader,
I have sit and read and listened for a bit and now gladly throw my two cents in.
Perhaps we all should wait and see what happens before we throw anyone under the truck or walk away.
I have been a B&M owner and am one of those that sets up at the shows.
I know at our local show that the wax dealers do not play fairly at times as they are trying to undercut the other guy, i know I havbe in the past been one of them. The only winner is the consumer and thats not a bad thing.
Everyone likes to save a few $$$ and thats great but now perhaps the sellers of singles and sets may actually be able to get back their investments. I know that I am tired of supplementing everyone else's hobby needs.
Let see where it goes
Thanks for reading.
Doug
Perhaps we all should wait and see what happens before we throw anyone under the truck or walk away.
I have been a B&M owner and am one of those that sets up at the shows.
I know at our local show that the wax dealers do not play fairly at times as they are trying to undercut the other guy, i know I havbe in the past been one of them. The only winner is the consumer and thats not a bad thing.
Everyone likes to save a few $$$ and thats great but now perhaps the sellers of singles and sets may actually be able to get back their investments. I know that I am tired of supplementing everyone else's hobby needs.
Let see where it goes
Thanks for reading.
Doug
Last edited:
Ducksfan13
NO TRADE GROUP!,
Does anyone know from here in California does that mean places like frank and sons won't be selling boxes or there will be less vendors selling them?
WOW
New User, Must Send First!
It appears that UD is awarding anyone with B&M status who opens a whole in the wall location or a closet space in an existing business or warehouse. Card stores will be popping up like daises this spring. Looks like I will be forced to open my own B&M store.
WOW
New User, Must Send First!
For those of you who are interested, here is a link to a couple of You Tube videos from the industry summit outlining Panini's changes to the industry.
Panini VP Mike Anderson Details New Distribution Plan at Industry Summit
PART 1.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j5IeatBG_Q
PART 2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-mu86PVi1s
Panini VP Mike Anderson Details New Distribution Plan at Industry Summit
PART 1.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j5IeatBG_Q
PART 2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-mu86PVi1s
It appears that UD is awarding anyone with B&M status who opens a whole in the wall location or a closet space in an existing business or warehouse. Card stores will be popping up like daises this spring. Looks like I will be forced to open my own B&M store.
It's one thing to open a store - to be able to keep the lights on and operating at least at a break even level is entirely another thing. Just go back 20 years and see the shops that opened and closed within a year. Margins are significantly smaller now than it was then
WOW
New User, Must Send First!
It's one thing to open a store - to be able to keep the lights on and operating at least at a break even level is entirely another thing. Just go back 20 years and see the shops that opened and closed within a year. Margins are significantly smaller now than it was then
Point taken, and is this not the vary reason why so many dealers operate outside of a B&M structure, i.e. internet, shows, flea markets etc? But on the other hand, according to UD, the huge influx of collectors that are now expected to run back to stores should create a whole lot of new cash flow for these stores. I guess what I was trying to say, I am hearing of dealers making very small investments into what I call, micro locations or micro stores, stores that should have little trouble in keeping the lights on due to low cost. Some of these new stores are being opened in existing warehouses or stores where someone is already paying a lease, and these locations are being classified as B&M stores. You are quite right however, I have looked long and hard at opening a B&M store for many years now, and I don’t see how anyone can turn a profit after covering all of the expenses. But I have no choice now, UD and Panini are removing me as a sub-distributor, I either make a play at the retail end of the business or leave the hobby. I will continue to operate a secondary market wholesale division, but I now find it necessary to supplement that business with a retail division. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
