trade deadline just got more interestin, Rick Nash available

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I'm sorry to all you Rangers fans that want Nash but please Mr. Sather do not I repeat do not get this guy. We finally formed an identity with some of the youngest talent in the league so dont pick up a 7 mil contract who might be washed up in three years. I mean c'mon can you guys really say stepan/kreider/mcdonagh/dubi are really worth Nash. I don't know just my 2 cents.
 
canucksfreak19 said:
The five teams that are believed to be on Nash's approved list: Boston Bruins, L.A. Kings, New York Rangers, San Jose Sharks, and the Toronto Maple Leafs.

http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/content/stories/2012/2/16/whats-the-price-for-nash.html


Glad the Canucks aren't on the list.
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But i loved reading all the proposals thinking that Raymond has any value. Had a serious injury and hasnt produced much, but everyone and their moms think he has any value. heck i think we would be lucky to get a 6th round pick for him.

IF we had any shot at Nash i think it would cost us a Goalie(luongo or schneider), a player like Burrows Kesler, and another like Hansen Hodgson, and possibly someone from the farm Schroeder connauton. We would be laughed off the phone offering Schneider, Ballard and raymond for Nash. this isn't NHL 12
 
^^^

And that is EXACTLY why I am glad Vancouver is not on the 'short-list.'

Wouldn't have mattered, Gilles would never have 'paid the price' for Nash. Great player, but that cap hit is a killer for years to come.
 
canucksfreak19 said:
The five teams that are believed to be on Nash's approved list: Boston Bruins, L.A. Kings, New York Rangers, San Jose Sharks, and the Toronto Maple Leafs.

http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/content/stories/2012/2/16/whats-the-price-for-nash.html


Glad the Canucks aren't on the list.
Click to expand...

all five teams can afford Nash in the right scenario. the question is what does CLM want in return?

SJ doesn't have a lot of great young prospects but they have quite a few current NHLers that they could trade. they are already a little top-heavy as far as talent is concerned though and they would likely have to move Greiss, a d-man like Demers and a young forward.

Boston would have to deal Hamilton plus at least one young forward like a Caron and then a third player. if it was Rask/Hamilton/Caron they would be the front-runner. i'm just not sure Boston would trade Rask.

NYR doesn't really have the NHL ready goalie to offer. they have plenty of young forwards and d-men. do they want to mess with their chemistry at this point?

Toronto has the d-men, that's for sure. they have a couple of higher end young forwards in Kadri and Colborne. not sure they have the goalie. a Schenn/Colborne + another player would be attractive.

L.A. has the young goalie that Columbus needs. the question is what else would L.A. be willing to give up. CLM would have to take a salary in return (Penner likely in a swap for Sanford) but i think the hang-up will be Jack Johnson. L.A. needs Johnson to play the style they play and i don't see any way they move him. if CLM would take Bernier/Loktionov/Martinez/Penner for Nash/Sanford, i would think the deal would be done already.

if they make that deal quickly, CLM could move Penner for another asset to a contender.

it should get interesting. i would put SJ and Boston as the front-runners.

by the way, don't rule out CLM trading Nash to Toronto for something like Schenn/Colborne/another player/pick and then move Carter to L.A. for Bernier. that way they get their goalie and 2-3 NHL ready players.
 
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This is going to come off as a Leafs bash, but it's not intended as one...

Why does every (semi)star player whose name comes up in trade/free agent talk want to go to Toronto?

That team is consistently mediocre, is completely mismanaged (even Leafs fans have to agree there), and players are put under more scrutiny in Toronto than anywhere else in the league. It's a lose, lose, lose situation.

Is it simply a case of being able to say at the end of your career, "Hey, I played for the Leafs."?
 
A lot of Canadian born players grow up imaging themselves wearing the Blue and White. A lot of young Quebecers and French Canadians grew up imaging themselves as Canadiens - until the Montreal Media scared them away.
 
hederman said:
This is going to come off as a Leafs bash, but it's not intended as one...

Why does every (semi)star player whose name comes up in trade/free agent talk want to go to Toronto?

That team is consistently mediocre, is completely mismanaged (even Leafs fans have to agree there), and players are put under more scrutiny in Toronto than anywhere else in the league. It's a lose, lose, lose situation.

Is it simply a case of being able to say at the end of your career, "Hey, I played for the Leafs."?
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Completely mismanaged is a big understatement. Read the book "Why the Leafs still suck and what can be done to fix them" to learn how not to run a sprots franchise.
 
sprague11 said:
A lot of Canadian born players grow up imaging themselves wearing the Blue and White. A lot of young Quebecers and French Canadians grew up imaging themselves as Canadiens - until the Montreal Media scared them away.
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You forgot to add "fickle Leafs fans and Toronto Media" scared them away from playing with the leafs. You'd have to be nuts to play here. And for the record I am a leafs fan!
 
Not sure how the cap would work past this year but Enroth, Stafford, Gragnani and a pick for Nash.

Send Hecht to the minors (his deal expires after this year). Let Boyes, Kaleta and Ellis walk, bring back Goose if possible and fill in the rest with callups (Foligno, Kassian, McKenzie).
 
First, with regards to this year, getting Nash under the cap...
...the Kings have about 2.4 million in cap space right now. The cap is pro-rated at this point to about 40-something percent of games left that any acquiring team would have to pay for. So they only need to unload an amount that's equal to the pro-rated salary, which will roughly be about 3.4 million (since we're after the All Star game, aka the half-way point, so slightly less than half is salary). Every day a deal doesn't go down, Nash's cap hit becomes lower so they may wait until the deadline.

If we're talking about Bernier going to Columbus, which makes no sense to me for Columbus' view, but that's the rumor, Bernier makes about 1 or 1.5 million, also pro-rated to around .4 million. If we send in another 2 million in Penner's pro-rated salary and the negligible .25 mil of Hunter's, that's about 2.6 mil of pro-rated cap space going back. That 2.6, plus the 2.4 cap space is about 5 mil, minus Nash's 3.4 mil will still give us around 1.6 mil for a backup goalie, either Sanford from CBJ or Kings farm system goalie.
So the numbers eerily make sense and it also makes sense for this to be a deadline deal so that LA can keep as much cap as possible.

It's also possible for LA, with that space, to make one other minor deal as well or a major deal if we deal salary back. (We will still need help in the top six and we also need help in the bottom six too). For example, if we went for Carter, Stoll and Jack Johnson can go the other way, maybe Andrei Loktionov as well...not saying it will happen, this is just a sample trade of a major deal even after Nash's salary is on the LA books.


For next year and the future...
We have three UFA's left (Jarrett Stoll, Willie Mitchell and Scott Parse) who add up to about 8-9 mil coming off the books. About 2 mill will be eaten up by Nash's contract immediately (7.8 of Nash minus 5.8 of Penner, Bernier and Hunter). Plus around .6 to 1.5 mil will be eaten by the next year's backup goalie. So that leaves around 4.5 to 5.5 mil in cap space. For each guy leaving (Parse doesn't count for much), we already have an immediate replacement that's already here in the NHL...Andrei Loktionov for Stoll, Viacheslav Voynov and Alec Martinez for Mitchell. But I have a feeling we may re-sign Mitchell anyway because he's good and proven.



Point of this all is...this deal could be real. It's not the usual BS that Eklund throws out that makes no sense. Even the value for Nash is correct...his down numbers and his nuts salary. The only thing that doesn't make sense is that CBJ already has Steve Mason so what's Bernier for?



- R
.><.

PS - These numbers seem to all work somehow for LA but not for other teams...why? Because not only is LA insanely deep in every position other than wing, LA has THAT MANY underperforming, overpaid 4 mil guys this year. Penner is worth like league minimum but gets 4.25, Stoll is worth maybe 1.5 mill for his 4 mil. Mitchell is worth what he's getting, he's good. Matt Greene is a 3rd pairing, stay at home guy who makes like 3 mill, for his skill, position, play-style, minutes and performance, he should get like 1 mil. Basically all of the ex-Oilers on our team are underperforming and overpaid by a lot. The best ex-Oiler was Smyth, who was also grossly overpaid but was highly effective. Another guy is Justin Williams who is getting like 4.5 mill and is playing like a 2 mill guy...but he may be ignited with Nash on the same line.
 
Rorschach said:
First, with regards to this year, getting Nash under the cap...
...the Kings have about 2.4 million in cap space right now. The cap is pro-rated at this point to about 40-something percent of games left that any acquiring team would have to pay for. So they only need to unload an amount that's equal to the pro-rated salary, which will roughly be about 3.4 million (since we're after the All Star game, aka the half-way point, so slightly less than half is salary). Every day a deal doesn't go down, Nash's cap hit becomes lower so they may wait until the deadline.

If we're talking about Bernier going to Columbus, which makes no sense to me for Columbus' view, but that's the rumor, Bernier makes about 1 or 1.5 million, also pro-rated to around .4 million. If we send in another 2 million in Penner's pro-rated salary and the negligible .25 mil of Hunter's, that's about 2.6 mil of pro-rated cap space going back. That 2.6, plus the 2.4 cap space is about 5 mil, minus Nash's 3.4 mil will still give us around 1.6 mil for a backup goalie, either Sanford from CBJ or Kings farm system goalie.
So the numbers eerily make sense and it also makes sense for this to be a deadline deal so that LA can keep as much cap as possible.

It's also possible for LA, with that space, to make one other minor deal as well or a major deal if we deal salary back. (We will still need help in the top six and we also need help in the bottom six too). For example, if we went for Carter, Stoll and Jack Johnson can go the other way, maybe Andrei Loktionov as well...not saying it will happen, this is just a sample trade of a major deal even after Nash's salary is on the LA books.


For next year and the future...
We have three UFA's left (Jarrett Stoll, Willie Mitchell and Scott Parse) who add up to about 8-9 mil coming off the books. About 2 mill will be eaten up by Nash's contract immediately (7.8 of Nash minus 5.8 of Penner, Bernier and Hunter). Plus around .6 to 1.5 mil will be eaten by the next year's backup goalie. So that leaves around 4.5 to 5.5 mil in cap space. For each guy leaving (Parse doesn't count for much), we already have an immediate replacement that's already here in the NHL...Andrei Loktionov for Stoll, Viacheslav Voynov and Alec Martinez for Mitchell. But I have a feeling we may re-sign Mitchell anyway because he's good and proven.



Point of this all is...this deal could be real. It's not the usual BS that Eklund throws out that makes no sense. Even the value for Nash is correct...his down numbers and his nuts salary. The only thing that doesn't make sense is that CBJ already has Steve Mason so what's Bernier for?



- R
.><.

PS - These numbers seem to all work somehow for LA but not for other teams...why? Because not only is LA insanely deep in every position other than wing, LA has THAT MANY underperforming, overpaid 4 mil guys this year. Penner is worth like league minimum but gets 4.25, Stoll is worth maybe 1.5 mill for his 4 mil. Mitchell is worth what he's getting, he's good. Matt Greene is a 3rd pairing, stay at home guy who makes like 3 mill, for his skill, position, play-style, minutes and performance, he should get like 1 mil. Basically all of the ex-Oilers on our team are underperforming and overpaid by a lot. The best ex-Oiler was Smyth, who was also grossly overpaid but was highly effective. Another guy is Justin Williams who is getting like 4.5 mill and is playing like a 2 mill guy...but he may be ignited with Nash on the same line.
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I like the synopsis but disagree with the point in bold above.

A good player which you deemed effective in my mind's eye cannot be considered overpaid. Its one or the other , just my two cents.
Apart from that I really enjoyed the breakdown and thought process behind this post.

EDIT: This post was not meant to be taken as an attack. I just wanted to put my two cents in and i mean no harm in my post.. FYI
 
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hederman said:
I too heard he likes the anonymity of the smaller markets. That pretty much eliminates Canadian teams, Detroit, New York, Los Angeles, Philly, and Boston. And, if he wants to go to a contender who does that leave? San Jose? St. Louis? Nashville?

Part of me wants to see him go somewhere else so he can have a shot, but the other side tells me he's not likely to move.
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We're not talking about baseball or basketball. In hockey, LA is considered a small market, lol.

- R
 
99goals said:
I like the synopsis but disagree with the point in bold above.

A good player which you deemed effective in my mind's eye cannot be considered overpaid. Its one or the other , just my two cents.
Apart from that I really enjoyed the breakdown and thought process behind this post.
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Thanks!

I stated this because he was making 6.25 mill as a 2nd line winger. When he first got to LA, he not only was a 1st line winger, he ignited Kopitar so although he had 4.5 mill worth in stats, Kopitar's increased stats (due to Smyth probably kicking Kopi's a$$ into shape) was worth easily 6.25. But at the time he requested to be traded, he as barely a 2nd line winger. Maybe he was incorrectly utilized offensively by Terry Murray (not exactly a big surprise).

- R
 
Rorschach said:
Thanks!

I stated this because he was making 6.25 mill as a 2nd line winger. When he first got to LA, he not only was a 1st line winger, he ignited Kopitar so although he had 4.5 mill worth in stats, Kopitar's increased stats (due to Smyth probably kicking Kopi's a$$ into shape) was worth easily 6.25. But at the time he requested to be traded, he as barely a 2nd line winger. Maybe he was incorrectly utilized offensively by Terry Murray (not exactly a big surprise).

- R
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Ah that makes complete sense. I see where you are coming from.
 
canucksfreak19 said:
I would be surprised if he were dealt to L.A. and Voynov were not part of the deal. Martinez I don't think does it.
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For Columbus, that could be right although you have to modify that severely by what list of teams Nash gave. If the list is like 3 teams and 2 of them don't have deal-able assets...

Also, to Los Angeles (and only to Los Angeles), Voynov's value is greater than Nash's. Dean Lombardi already has stated that his/LA's philosophy is that he will pay big salary for centers, top defensemen and goaltenders (divided down by the soft market for goalies right now, they're easy to get). That's why Kopitar and Doughty make what they do even though they aren't really earning it right now...he's willing to shell out because of longterm deals. Voynov is another Doughty-esque player in the making, maybe one notch down...who is making very little and is underpaid for his NHL on-ice value.

Nash would become the highest paid player on the team and plays the least significant position on the ice.

- R
 
Rorschach said:
Point of this all is...this deal could be real. It's not the usual BS that Eklund throws out that makes no sense. Even the value for Nash is correct...his down numbers and his nuts salary. The only thing that doesn't make sense is that CBJ already has Steve Mason so what's Bernier for?



- R
Click to expand...

I disagree. This is a typical Eklund rumor. It has come out that what Columbus is looking for, not necessarily what they will get, is a young roster player, along with a combination of high-end prospects and picks. They may take two of those three. But I think there is no way they take one of the three. Which is what that unsubstantiated rumor from Eklund calls for.

I think they would do that deal for Carter, in a heartbeat, but his value is nowhere near the value of Nash.
 
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