trade deadline just got more interestin, Rick Nash available

[tiger tiger]

I think it would be more better to wait until July 1 and see if they can sign UFA's like Parise, Doan, T. Ruutu. But some team will be willing to pay now b/c they think that they have a real chance at winning the Cup. ie. NYR.

 

[Rorschach]

ahh...but you forget that Burke is running the Leafs asylum. He's done that in the past with Vancouver and Anaheim, basically run the cupboard bare before he moves on to another team. I think he has a 5 or 6 year contract with the Leafs. If he produces a Cup in Toronto, he'll be considered a god there and it wouldn't matter if the Leafs didn't see another Cup for 40+ years.

Kessel basically saved Burke's butt this year. Some still aren't convinced that giving up Seguin and Hamilton was such a great idea still.

Plus the Leafs generate enough profit that they could bury bad contracts, but Burke doesn't like to do that unless absolutely necessary. Like Redden for the NYR. Leafs most likely made a net profit of $60-70 mil last year, and didn't even make the playoffs. LA doesn't have that luxury, so a Nash's salary seems ridiculous.

Outside of Doughty and JJ (who's 25 and too old and close to UFA for CBJ's liking), LA hasn't doesn't have a top 10 draft pick in their line up. (not saying top 10 are guaranteed to be sure fire NHLers, but some GMs buy into the hype). Bernier has the potential to be a #1 starter.

Hickey has pretty much busted as a top flight dman, Lewis is a 3rd or 4th liner, Brayden Schenn got traded for Richards, Teubert to Edm for Penner. I don't know how much "sweeter" LA can make it b/c, IMO, they don't have perceived high end prospects.

As for forward prospects, only Loktionov and Toffoli will most likely be NHLers. Moller isn't even playing NA (not sure if he's still under contract). On d, Voynov could be a NHLer. Forbort and Deslauriers, maybe. Tricky with d. Penner and Stoll are UFAs so CBJ won't want them at all.

Burke could...but while he's been known to make wild deals, he also built Vancouver into the contender they are now (with the Sedins) and built a Cup winner in Anaheim. He won't gut the team for one player. If he was that guy, LA would have Kadri and Seguin (we would have gotten TOs 1st) for B. Schenn.


First, I want to say this - I don't like either of these players. They could help but Carter and Nash are not winners, character guys, or any of the type of guys who LA normally looks for. But their scoring MUST help with our "dead last place in the NHL" scoring. The real guy LA (and I) wants is Parise. Actually the real guy we want is Toews but whatever, hehe.


I'm going to try to explain this from what I perceive is CBJs view.
CBJ, their first pick was Rusti Klesla who was picked 4th over all but this is the pre-Crosby era where every draft, if you didn't get top 3, maybe even top 2, you got just a everyday roster player and that's what Klesla became. They also picked Pascal Leclaire, a goaltender who didn't pan out. So they started with the back end.

The first top pick they had was in their second year was Nash, a winger. And since that time, every high 1st they used was on a forward...Voracek, Brassard, Filatov, Brule, Picard, Zherdev...bad luck, bad drafting, but most importantly bad strategy. And CBJ can't afford that because like LA, they don't attract UFAs.

Point is, they built on forwards. They picked defensemen in lower rounds and goalies too. Championships and playoff games are won on defense and hot goaltending. But CBJ fans have watched their team over and over draft wrong and have a whack team. You have a hot Leclaire or Mason but can't sustain it because your defense, while mobile, is small and not defensively strong.

So now I believe they get it...they need to build back end first and be strong down the middle. That's why they don't need Kadri. They need Bernier (or Schneider or any other young top goalie prospect). They need young defensemen to build around. And they need to be strong down the middle. They have Johansen already and they still have Brassard. This draft they can choose either Grigorenko or Yakupov (I think the fans want Nail) or trade down for a guy like Murray or Dumba.

The point is, I believe this time they want to build back out and strong down the middle to finally reverse this losing philosophy; thus the position of the player offered is more important than the quality of the player. They want youth and they want talented youth but they'll take defensemen over forwards right now. And the Kings have a TON of those guys.

Lastly, you're vastly underrating LAs young players. LA's farm system is considered top 5 in all of the NHL. Hickey has played well this year and was ready to make the line-up this year but we had no spots and he was the 2nd guy in line after Voynov. (I believe if Voynov was in this year's draft with his existing credentials, like if Bettman took him away from LA and just threw him in the draft, he would be a top 3 pick.) Jake Muzzin is also ready as well. Heck, we'd even trade them Matt Greene, who is a solid stay-at-home defender with locker room leadership qualities. And if we have to, we also can trade Forbort, who is a top 50 prospect as well as Bernier.

LA can easily do this trade. Twice on Sunday. Toronto would have to rip themselves apart and way overpay since they don't seen to have what I think CBJ is looking for.

I wish this was a discussion about NJ and Parise though.

- R
.><.

 

[Rorschach]

I think it would be more better to wait until July 1 and see if they can sign UFA's like Parise, Doan, T. Ruutu. But some team will be willing to pay now b/c they think that they have a real chance at winning the Cup. ie. NYR.

NYR is built to win the President's Cup. They remind me of the pre-Messier Rangers of the early 90s. They just have a Cup-worthy goaltender. They're at least two players away, maybe three and they know it, which is why they're looking for more. When Staal comes back, maybe they need two players.

But...like you say, they will try to win because they think they're close. But the player they really should go after is Suter. That's who they need.

Very likely Ruutu is the kind of guy Lombardi will go after (already injured, plays a tough, two-way game, character guy, is willing to sign because other people won't sign a hurt guy). DL will also be after Parise if he fails on Nash (but not Carter), if he reaches UFA and if ZP is willing to come out here.

- R
.><.

 

[jayman]

I think Luke Schenn, Nazem Kadri, and a first round draft pick for Rick Nash would be nice. I'm saying that as a Leaf fan, the ODDS of that happening are very slim.

But who knows, Leaf fans expect anything, nobody saw the Dion Phaneuf and Ketih Aulie trade where the Leafs sent Calgary a bag of pucks in return for their future captain in Phaneuf and a young tall defensemen in Aulie. The the Francois Beauchemin trade too Anahiem for Lupul who is having a career year playing with Kessel and Jake Gardiner a 22 year old defensemen who made the team out of training camp who can skate and pass, my goodness. I know the Bruins won the cup, but the Leafs won the Tomas Kaberle Deal, Joe Colbourne will develop into a 1st or 2nd line forward one day.

I would love too see the Leafs trade Mike Komisarek, he has just dropped off the face of the earth and his contract is much more appealing with 2 years left at 3.5 million dollars each. But the Leafs would have too get a very good prospect or a roster player for him. I don't see how he can help the team in the playoffs with all the depth the Leafs have on their blue line.

But I don't know if Rick Nash wants too play in the pressure cooker in Toronto, remember he has the no trade clause and he controls his destiny and where he ends up.

The Nail Yakupov thing will be interesting. He seems like a very nice good kid who speaks English very well but the Columbus Blue Jackets have ZERO and I mean absolute ZERO Luck with talented Russian born forwards. Just ask Nikita Filatov and especially Nikolai Zheredev. If I was Columbus, I would seriously look at trading away the first overall draft pick for something substantial or for something that will help the rebuild.

 

[JohnnyDrama]

So 2 HUGELY under performing players and a 1st round pick for their franchise player? Not sure Columbus would bite. Plus, I doubt Nash would waive to go to Buffalo

I don't know about management but I wouldn't move Myers and I sure as hell don't want Mason.

 

[slckrsx]

I think Luke Schenn, Nazem Kadri, and a first round draft pick for Rick Nash would be nice. I'm saying that as a Leaf fan, the ODDS of that happening are very slim.

But who knows, Leaf fans expect anything, nobody saw the Dion Phaneuf and Ketih Aulie trade where the Leafs sent Calgary a bag of pucks in return for their future captain in Phaneuf and a young tall defensemen in Aulie. The the Francois Beauchemin trade too Anahiem for Lupul who is having a career year playing with Kessel and Jake Gardiner a 22 year old defensemen who made the team out of training camp who can skate and pass, my goodness. I know the Bruins won the cup, but the Leafs won the Tomas Kaberle Deal, Joe Colbourne will develop into a 1st or 2nd line forward one day.

I would love too see the Leafs trade Mike Komisarek, he has just dropped off the face of the earth and his contract is much more appealing with 2 years left at 3.5 million dollars each. But the Leafs would have too get a very good prospect or a roster player for him. I don't see how he can help the team in the playoffs with all the depth the Leafs have on their blue line.

But I don't know if Rick Nash wants too play in the pressure cooker in Toronto, remember he has the no trade clause and he controls his destiny and where he ends up.

The Nail Yakupov thing will be interesting. He seems like a very nice good kid who speaks English very well but the Columbus Blue Jackets have ZERO and I mean absolute ZERO Luck with talented Russian born forwards. Just ask Nikita Filatov and especially Nikolai Zheredev. If I was Columbus, I would seriously look at trading away the first overall draft pick for something substantial or for something that will help the rebuild.

Bwhahahahahahahahah. I guess your not watching the same games I am but Komisarek has no business playing in the NHL and should have been waived and sent to the Marlies a long time ago.

I would take a dirty jock strap for Komisarek never mind prospect

 

[gretzky99]

Wow, not sure where to start, hehe.

First, thanks for the detailed reply.

LIFO (Last In, First Out) then.

You can't count on UFAs signing in LA. Why? I can give a ton of reasons, from the system and coach to this not being a hockey hotbed like Toronto. Bottom line is the last decade+, since the Gretzky era, we haven't been able to sign any decent UFAs...only junkpile guys and injured guys come to LA. We HAVE to trade and once we have a winning contending team, maybe we can interest the right kinds of UFAs (the ones who come to win).

We can target Carter and if we get him, move Stoll...not necessarily to Columbus but to any one else who can use him, even if it's for future considerations. I also fully agree with you to get rid of as many ex-Oiler guys since they're all overpaid. Heck, almost every expensive player (3 mil or more) is overpaid this year. Greene as a bottom pairing defenseman playing maybe 10 to 15 min a night and just as a non-puckmoving stay at home guy is making 3 mil...

We have a logjam of talented kids at...
...center (Loktionov and Lewis with Richardson still laying around)
...defensemen (Voynov, Martinez, Hickey and Muzzin with Forbort and Deslauriers on the way)
...goaltenders (Bernier obviously, Zatkoff and Jones with Gibson on the way)
...right wing (Toffoli, Kozun and Vey)
With so many talented kids, why not trade off the way underperforming and overpaid guys? Even if we don't keep the kids, give them a chance to play in order to build up their trade value! (The ! is for Lombardi, not you, g99, hehe)

As for Johnson, he's also overpaid. If you take away his 3rd overall draft position and his name and just look solely on performance and age, you'll see he's worth maybe 1.5 million tops. He's a 40 point defenseman (very common nowadays, every decent team seems to have 1 or 2) but he's a DOUBLE DIGIT MINUS player every year. He was -21 last year and a -10 so far this year (projecting to about -17). That's very bad for a top 4 "defender" for any team let alone a contender. And he's already in his mid-20s...he missed a big chunk of development staying in Michigan and he improves only slightly each year. By the time he's a 0 +/- he'll be a free agent, lol. And this is with LAs logjam of defensemen. Right now Voynov in his very first 33 games is a +4 with 11 points...while NOT playing top 4 minutes! Johnson for Carter straight up...Howson would be fired, not Lombardi. No matter how the deal goes, Lombardi can say he had VV and AMart to instantly replace JJ.


As for Nash, his cap hit is so bad I'm surprised people have the Bernier, Voynov, Penner AND a 1st nonsense going around. CBJ will be lucky to get Bernier, 1st and the only reason why that much is because we're going to ask them to take Penner back as a salary dump! With Nash giving a "short list" right now, any deadline deal will stunted in value. But I agree with you in rather having Carter instead. They score about the same but Carter is younger, plays a more important position and makes nearly 3 million less, lol.
But, despite how bad Nash's hit is, I could engineer deals on paper where the Kings manage to get Nash, Carter AND Parise, and re-sign all of those guys next year too if ZP is willing, lol. Yes, we have that many guys making too much money. The only issue would be if both CBJ and NJ covet the same prospect and not getting that guy (Bernier) is a deal breaker because NJ can use Bernier just as much as CBJ.



Lastly, I don't think you can give up this season. We have all of the normally needed gears for a playoff machine...our defense is excellent...we have the hot goaltender...we have some size up front. Our PK is very good (in fact the one 3-5 mil guy who is getting the job done is Willie Mitchell, who we should try to re-sign as we dump all of our other UFAs) and we have some size up front.

If we can get a couple of players up front to score, we're in deep. Not only because those guys will add more goals but they will also take the pressure off the other guys who should be scoring but aren't (Kopitar, Williams, Richards, Brown, and Gagne when he returns, etc.). If we can make the playoffs, it will be valuable experience for our young team.

- R
.><.

well, i think DL has trouble landing the big time UFAs, but he has been able to land the 2nd tier guys. so guys like Whitney and Gaustad are exactly the kind of guys he can land. i don't think he has any chance at Parise, so in that scenario i agree with you.

Greene is worth the money because he is the only guy that does what he does. he wears the "A", he blocks shots and he's great on the PK and he is the only real muscle on the defense. i don't have a problem with his deal.

Stoll and Penner aren't coming back as well as Parse. that we can be pretty sure of unless Loktionov is part of a trade. and Gagne might retire, we don't know yet. that's $12M in cap space potentially coming off right there.

and i can't disagree enough on Jack Johnson. please find me a 40 point d-man that plays 20 minutes that makes $1.5. there isn't one unless he's in his first contract. every comparable player to Johnson makes as much or more. $4M for Johnson is a steal and everyone knows it which is why they are after him. Johnson has been the best d-man along with Mitchell so far this year and it's not close.

someone will give Columbus at least 2 quality young players and a pick for Nash. i just think he costs too much with his cap hit. he should not be the 4th highest paid player in the NHL.
Carter, on the other hand, does not want to be in Columbus. paying a premium for his would be crazy. you don't trade a top pairing d-man (and Johnson is a top-pairing d-man) for a guy that doesn't want to be where he is. Bernier for Carter is the trade to make.

as far as this year, the Kings just cannot score against any team that has any sort of decent defensive system. they get very few scoring chances, and when they do get them, they can't bury them. there are far too many teams that are very good this year to even think about getting past the first round. Detroit, Vancouver, SJ, St. Louis, even Nashville are all much better than the Kings.

i'm not saying sell everyone off. i'm saying see if you can get Carter on the cheap and move the UFAs for assets and let some kids play. the prices are going to be very high at the deadline as evidenced by the two trades yesterday. get some picks for Penner and Stoll and gear up for the draft for both trades and looking to draft some goal scorers.

i think we agree on a lot, just not on Jack Johnson.

 

[99goals]

I think Luke Schenn, Nazem Kadri, and a first round draft pick for Rick Nash would be nice. I'm saying that as a Leaf fan, the ODDS of that happening are very slim.

But who knows, Leaf fans expect anything, nobody saw the Dion Phaneuf and Ketih Aulie trade where the Leafs sent Calgary a bag of pucks in return for their future captain in Phaneuf and a young tall defensemen in Aulie. The the Francois Beauchemin trade too Anahiem for Lupul who is having a career year playing with Kessel and Jake Gardiner a 22 year old defensemen who made the team out of training camp who can skate and pass, my goodness. I know the Bruins won the cup, but the Leafs won the Tomas Kaberle Deal, Joe Colbourne will develop into a 1st or 2nd line forward one day.

I would love too see the Leafs trade Mike Komisarek, he has just dropped off the face of the earth and his contract is much more appealing with 2 years left at 3.5 million dollars each. But the Leafs would have too get a very good prospect or a roster player for him. I don't see how he can help the team in the playoffs with all the depth the Leafs have on their blue line.

But I don't know if Rick Nash wants too play in the pressure cooker in Toronto, remember he has the no trade clause and he controls his destiny and where he ends up.

The Nail Yakupov thing will be interesting. He seems like a very nice good kid who speaks English very well but the Columbus Blue Jackets have ZERO and I mean absolute ZERO Luck with talented Russian born forwards. Just ask Nikita Filatov and especially Nikolai Zheredev. If I was Columbus, I would seriously look at trading away the first overall draft pick for something substantial or for something that will help the rebuild.

I would like to know if this years draft is considered a good draft class outside the top 4 ranked players. A bit of a sidebar but this makes it easier or harder to trade the picks based on the draft class. If they can get mid range players in rounds 2 to 4 it may be easier to swap players for picks.

 

[canucksfreak19]

I would like to know if this years draft is considered a good draft class outside the top 4 ranked players. A bit of a sidebar but this makes it easier or harder to trade the picks based on the draft class. If they can get mid range players in rounds 2 to 4 it may be easier to swap players for picks.

Depending on who's rankings you look at there are 5-7 d-men in the top-10. There are two goalies with mid-first round rankings, but there are 4-5 more that seem to be ranked in the top-60 overall. Considering there is only consensus on one of the top-4, and there isn't even consensus that he's number 1, I'd say that there is some depth.

 

[tiger tiger]

Burke could...but while he's been known to make wild deals, he also built Vancouver into the contender they are now (with the Sedins) and built a Cup winner in Anaheim. He won't gut the team for one player.

Not for 1 player, but to turn a team into a playoff contender yes. Burke has traded away 1st, 2nd, 3rd round picks for playoff rentals. For years, the Canucks didn't have a 2nd round pick. Plus other than the Sedins, most of his 1st round selections have been busts. The cupboard was bare when Burke left Vancouver. Anaheim was stuck with bad contracts (Giguere) and the prospect cupboard was bare. Just ask fans of both teams. Burke will build a contender in Toronto, but when he's done, the cupboard will be bare.

So now I believe they get it...

We'll see what happens with Nash, then we'll know. I think most CBJ fans don't have a lot of confidence in Howson.

I wish this was a discussion about NJ and Parise though.

I think LA should go after Parise instead. Quick is playing very well and has developed into a solid #1. Jones could be a very capable back up, if not more eventually. But since NJ is in playoff contention, it might not happen. NJ could be interested in Schneider too. LA would probably have to know that Parise would re-sign before making the deal too.

More likely, Tampa could come knocking inquiring about Bernier. May offer Kubina (UFA) and C. Ashton or Panik. Maybe Malone. But I think Yzerman will get a goalie via free agency.

 

[Rorschach]

We'll see what happens with Nash, then we'll know. I think most CBJ fans don't have a lot of confidence in Howson.


I think LA should go after Parise instead. Quick is playing very well and has developed into a solid #1. Jones could be a very capable back up, if not more eventually. But since NJ is in playoff contention, it might not happen. NJ could be interested in Schneider too. LA would probably have to know that Parise would re-sign before making the deal too.

More likely, Tampa could come knocking inquiring about Bernier. May offer Kubina (UFA) and C. Ashton or Panik. Maybe Malone. But I think Yzerman will get a goalie via free agency.

Yeah, the rumors seem to support that the organization will now do a real rebuild but like you say, until the deal/s go down...

My point with Parise is that he isn't available. NJ is doing well enough so they need him.

For the Tampa deals, we wouldn't do Bernier for all of those guys mentioned put together. We simply couldn't use any of them. We want to upgrade scoring wingers and pretty much nothing else.

- R

 

[gretzky99]

I think LA should go after Parise instead. Quick is playing very well and has developed into a solid #1. Jones could be a very capable back up, if not more eventually. But since NJ is in playoff contention, it might not happen. NJ could be interested in Schneider too. LA would probably have to know that Parise would re-sign before making the deal too.

More likely, Tampa could come knocking inquiring about Bernier. May offer Kubina (UFA) and C. Ashton or Panik. Maybe Malone. But I think Yzerman will get a goalie via free agency.

DL won't go after Parise because he can't guarantee he can re-sign him. he won't give up assets, especially Bernier, for a rental.

Tampa doesn't have anything that DL wants. they don't need Kubina and i don't think any of the younger players are an upgrade over what LA already has. there just isn't a good fit there.

 

[Rorschach]

DL won't go after Parise because he can't guarantee he can re-sign him. he won't give up assets, especially Bernier, for a rental.

Tampa doesn't have anything that DL wants. they don't need Kubina and i don't think any of the younger players are an upgrade over what LA already has. there just isn't a good fit there.

I don't believe is even being offered. If we was, DL for sure would make a pitch...he just wouldn't pay that much because it would be a rental. But we're not that far along in the process because NJ isn't even shopping him.

Tampa does have a lot of stuff LA wants but, according to the rumors we see, they simply aren't offering those guys. I wouldn't mind at all seeing St. Louis in a Kings uniform.

- R

 

[gretzky99]

I don't believe is even being offered. If we was, DL for sure would make a pitch...he just wouldn't pay that much because it would be a rental. But we're not that far along in the process because NJ isn't even shopping him.

Tampa does have a lot of stuff LA wants but, according to the rumors we see, they simply aren't offering those guys. I wouldn't mind at all seeing St. Louis in a Kings uniform.

- R

right, i'm sure L.A. would be interested in Stamkos and St. Louis.

 

[tiger tiger]

as I mentioned earlier, LA (or any other team) would need to know that Parise will re-sign if they are giving up bluechip prospects.

I'm looking at the reverse POV. Which teams would be interested in Bernier and what do they have to offer.

But as I mentioned earlier, you could wait until July 1st to go after a goalie without emptying your prospect cupboard or destroying your current team.

It's only teams that are desperate or very hungry for a cup run that will give up a lot for a rental. i.e. Philly's 2nd and 3rd for Grossman. SJ's 2nd for Moore.
But given the tight race, NJ may think (but not necessarily true) that they could go on a deep playoff run too.

So far only Tampa, Carolina, CBJ, and it looks like Dallas are sellers. Edmonton is in there too. Teams like NYI, Mtl are clinging to some misguided hope that they will make the playoffs. Buffalo has had a terrible season, but I don't know if they have anyone they could offer up as a rental.

 

[gretzky99]

as I mentioned earlier, LA (or any other team) would need to know that Parise will re-sign if they are giving up bluechip prospects.

I'm looking at the reverse POV. Which teams would be interested in Bernier and what do they have to offer.

But as I mentioned earlier, you could wait until July 1st to go after a goalie without emptying your prospect cupboard or destroying your current team.

It's only teams that are desperate or very hungry for a cup run that will give up a lot for a rental. i.e. Philly's 2nd and 3rd for Grossman. SJ's 2nd for Moore.
But given the tight race, NJ may think (but not necessarily true) that they could go on a deep playoff run too.

So far only Tampa, Carolina, CBJ, and it looks like Dallas are sellers. Edmonton is in there too. Teams like NYI, Mtl are clinging to some misguided hope that they will make the playoffs. Buffalo has had a terrible season, but I don't know if they have anyone they could offer up as a rental.

if i'm the Kings, i offer Stoll to PHI for pick/prospect, see if there is a taker for Penner (Boston?) for a pick, sniff around Carter and see if you can get him on the cheap, and if not, let the kids play and go into the summer with your $10M+ cap space.

the prices are high - it's going to pay off to be a seller and it's going to cost you a lot more to be a buyer.

 

[hockeyguy2006]

The Leafs can trade Schenn/Kadri/+ for anyone apparently. Every big player that is mentioned for a trade, some Leafs fan without a doubt will post. "The Leafs can get X by trading them Schenn/Kadri/+"

:|:|:|:|:|:|:|:|

 

[nucks4cup]

^^^^ Thats because they spend to much time playing NHL 12....

 

[hederman]

No, they spend too much time being Leafs fans. Makes ya delusional.

Really no different than certain Kings fans who think Johnathan Bernier is the second coming of Patrick Roy.

 

[Metrags]

No, they spend too much time being Leafs fans. Makes ya delusional.

Really no different than certain Kings fans who think Johnathan Bernier is the second coming of Patrick Roy.

That is reserved for Carey Price, JB is more of a Ken Dryden, and Luongo is the second coming of Brodeur even before Brodeur has a chance to retire into the anonymity of 'second best goalie ever'.

So many pot shots there I lost count :beer:

As for the other thing Kings fans were saying.... Parise? Really? Why would a team in a solid playoff spot "make a push" for the playoffs by trading their best player (who is not even being 'kind of' shopped to anyone), not to mention their captain.....