Another UD cut signature screwup?
- Thread starter penguinpr
- Start date
chadsexington
Registered User
There was a thread here about a week ago where someone photomatched their Pelle Lindbergh super pad, and John came out and said that when he was able to track the winners of those auctions, he knew it was Brian Price. Price's acquisitions in a whole have been pretty public, and he strikes me as the kind of guy that would keep a paper trail of all of his rare purchases (tax purposes? Wouldn't these be business expenses technically?)
I have little to no doubt about the authenticity of what we've seen in the ITG products thus far, especially with the emblems/numbers. All of them can be linked back to a previous ITG product where pieces may have been used (like old all star jerseys and such) and there's nothing out of the ordinary that I've seen so far.
FrozenInferno
Resident Bluenoser, Verified Trader,
That was me with the Lindbergh pads, it was very interesting to trace the memorabilia back a bit and as a result I value my collection pieces more.
When it comes down to it the authenticity of memorabilia cards it's all about trust. Tracing the Lindbergh pads to a potential match on Classic Auctions (I am not 100% positive they are the pads, but I am very confident based on what I found and what John said) was one step of the process, tracing that auction to a reliable source is another step that needs to be considered. In the case of the pads the auction stated they came from the Lindbergh family, that's where the credibility of Classic Auctions needs to be taken into account and I feel they are a reputable source.
In reality unless you are there to personally witness the player using the jersey, handing it to you after the game, travel to a manufacturing facility with the jersey on your lap, cut it up by hand, apply it to a card, and place it in a pack yourself there is rarely 100% certainty of the source of a jersey. Even if you DID do all that yourself, you still need the next guy to believe that your experience was true or it was all for nothing.
If Dr. Price is anything like me, he would not even lay eyes on a piece of memorabilia without being certain it is coming from a trustworthy source. I know he is a collector, I know he is very careful when seeking out memorabilia, and I trust that it is authentic. Upper Deck on the other hand, who knows where they are getting their memorabilia? You see the odd Meigray tag piece in a card from time to time, other than that it could come from anywhere and there is nobody stepping up to stand behind the authenticity.
I do have a couple of UD memorabilia cards in my collection, but I don't place the same sentimental value on them as I do with my ITG cards because I frankly don't trust the authenticity of UD game-used anymore.
Good point on the paper trail. They are of course business expenses as they are component of the inventory cost.
I also have no doubt about the authenticity of ITG's memorabilia.
gratzi
Resident Iginla Stalker , Verified Trader,
I don't own one card made by ITG, my Iginla PC consists of 100% UD products cause I always just liked their products best but I would REALLY love the CHOICE to be able to change that statement!
Same here. I only started collecting ITG hard last month at and subsequent to Expo. These new cards in my collection are unbelievable! They have quickly become my favorites.
A few samples of cards with memorabilia that I completely trust and I am sooo thankful that Brian has made this memorabilia available to us all!
Here's a sample of some of the cards I've pulled. Just look at this stuff! It is unbelievable just how good it looks. And combine that with the authenticity of the embedded memorabilia! Come on!
geplimestone
NOT PERMITTED TO TRADE
Gerber29
Registered Trader,
Same here!
I always just purchased UD stuff. I liked the designs more and I really didn't like the slabbed cards from ITG Ultimate. But that changed 180°. I'm only buying ITG/BAP GU stuff now. When I'm buying that, I'm sure I'll get real Game Used jersey pieces and not these crappy event worn etc stuff.
I always just purchased UD stuff. I liked the designs more and I really didn't like the slabbed cards from ITG Ultimate. But that changed 180°. I'm only buying ITG/BAP GU stuff now. When I'm buying that, I'm sure I'll get real Game Used jersey pieces and not these crappy event worn etc stuff.
TurcoCollector3
Verified Trader,
I also prefer ITG to UD. Especially the BTP sets every year. Thats one of the few sets I bust more then a box of (usually close to a case if not more). The only problem I have ever had with an ITG card is from last years Super Glove set. The Turco glove pieces are from a Brians glove, as there are pieces with the Brians logo out there (at the moment cannot find the pics). The only problem is Marty has never worn a Brians glove in a game. He has always worn Heaton/CCM/RBK or Vaughn gloves. Now I do believe the glove may have been practice used though as Marty does try different stuff out in practices sometimes.
There are also the Fleury glove cards in the set with pieces from an Itech glove, almost positive Fleury has only worn Koho/RBK equipment through his career. But I may be wrong with him.
Other then that, I have absolutely no problems with ITG. By far my favorite company
There are also the Fleury glove cards in the set with pieces from an Itech glove, almost positive Fleury has only worn Koho/RBK equipment through his career. But I may be wrong with him.
Other then that, I have absolutely no problems with ITG. By far my favorite company
jetsman
Verified Trader
Jeremy, there's no way mainstream media's going to pay attention to it.
You have to factor in a couple things.
First, the Patricks don't mean that much to the mainstream sports crowd. If it was, say, an Henri Richard auto mistaken as a Rocket it might make news.
Second, this isn't a case of authenticity concerns like the quad auto in baseball. It's a story of mistaken identity and at most would get a chuckle from Jay Onrait.
But the larger reason why not is because media are so strapped for reporters right now (because of budget cuts) that to devote a reporter or camera man to this would be such a waste of resources.
At the VERY most, you might see this in a blog off a news site, but most of them, especially in Canada, don't have sections for sports memorabilia.
Triple B
Verified Trader,
I won't doubt Dr. Price's inventory of memorabilia for a second. I've had the privilege to see both companies' (ITG's and UD's) game used rooms and while both are massively impressive, Dr. Price went the extra mile to show me a binder with COAs from hockey teams and auction houses certifying each and every piece of memorabilia. From what he's told me, he WON'T use a memorabilia piece unless he has the COA on file to back it up. I also know he has one of the more insane personal collections around. He's not only in the business, he's a fan. McWilliam doesn't even like sports.
Meticulous is the best way to decribe ITG's operations.
With UD, I saw their game used room back in 2005 with Mike Low and we were beyond impressed. Now, with all of the crap floating around, I'd hate to see what that room looks like now. Bins with jersey pieces from authentic jerseys and from photo shoots...hopefully separated.
While I agree with Gomaz that this may have repercussions on the hobby as a whole, educated collectors will know who has authentic memorabilia and who does not. The question is, will that be enough?
Meticulous is the best way to decribe ITG's operations.
With UD, I saw their game used room back in 2005 with Mike Low and we were beyond impressed. Now, with all of the crap floating around, I'd hate to see what that room looks like now. Bins with jersey pieces from authentic jerseys and from photo shoots...hopefully separated.
While I agree with Gomaz that this may have repercussions on the hobby as a whole, educated collectors will know who has authentic memorabilia and who does not. The question is, will that be enough?
jetsman
Verified Trader
First, I find it interesting how a mis-ID has turned into a thread about who's the better company for GUs...
Be that as it may though, I think inevitably the NHL will open up their licensing to multiple companies this time around. I could see it being as many as 3 and as few as 2. If I had to put my $ down, I'd say Panini will be the odd company out.
Topps's potential in hockey is too much for the NHL to ignore.
UD has, if nothing else, proven that they have great networking and more than any company in any sport has been able to put hockey cards in the public eye through premiums with Sunkist, Gatorade and others over the last couple years, let alone McD's. Be that as it may though, The NHL certainly could look at how some products have succeeded and failed and the approval/displeasure from fans, and decide to let UD sit out for the length of a short-term contract (say two years).
ITG has the passion, no question, and the connections with past players and collectors to be a very viable hobby entity under license. But the x-factor is how the PA will react. If a guy like Chelios ascends the throne then it's assured that ITG joins the fold. The only part that makes me a doubting Thomas is how the NHL and PA react to the unlicensed cards, ie those without pictures or any player contracts that have taken athletes out of the revenue picture. I can't imagine that the PA is 100% happy about that, and I know that if I was a player I'd be very upset and would encourage my PA to not work with such a company.
I think it's inevitable that there will be restrictions on companies also. 9 sets a year per company, 27 sets total before premiums and show cards seems like a good round number.
Be that as it may though, I think inevitably the NHL will open up their licensing to multiple companies this time around. I could see it being as many as 3 and as few as 2. If I had to put my $ down, I'd say Panini will be the odd company out.
Topps's potential in hockey is too much for the NHL to ignore.
UD has, if nothing else, proven that they have great networking and more than any company in any sport has been able to put hockey cards in the public eye through premiums with Sunkist, Gatorade and others over the last couple years, let alone McD's. Be that as it may though, The NHL certainly could look at how some products have succeeded and failed and the approval/displeasure from fans, and decide to let UD sit out for the length of a short-term contract (say two years).
ITG has the passion, no question, and the connections with past players and collectors to be a very viable hobby entity under license. But the x-factor is how the PA will react. If a guy like Chelios ascends the throne then it's assured that ITG joins the fold. The only part that makes me a doubting Thomas is how the NHL and PA react to the unlicensed cards, ie those without pictures or any player contracts that have taken athletes out of the revenue picture. I can't imagine that the PA is 100% happy about that, and I know that if I was a player I'd be very upset and would encourage my PA to not work with such a company.
I think it's inevitable that there will be restrictions on companies also. 9 sets a year per company, 27 sets total before premiums and show cards seems like a good round number.
You may be right, but sometimes things have a way of working themselves out. And, it sometimes has to do with who you know.
A good friend of mine is a Producer for HNIC. I told him about this yesterday. He told me to email him a quick description of the issue and pictures of the card. He responded to me this morning as follows:
" I have passed it on to Elliotte and our features producer - neat idea - and they like newsy sh*t like that - I'll let you know.... "
I'm not holding my breath, but the seed has certainly been planted.
FrozenInferno
Resident Bluenoser, Verified Trader,
ITG is limited to what they can do because of the lack of an NHL license, and that results in cards without photos, logos, and whatnot. You're saying because they make unlicensed cards without photos, something they have very little control control over thanks to the current license situation, they shouldn't be granted a license? Talk about a catch 22...
sprague11
Upstanding Member
Sadly, I think the so called mainstream reaction would be "Lynn Who? Muzz What?"
holygoalie
Verified Trader ,
Sad, but true. For the longest time I held out hope, and wanted to believe, that what Upper Deck was putting out for us collectors was the real deal. And it IS sad to look through your own personal collection and have that lingering doubt in the back of your mind. I really have to question why the NHL and NHLPA would back a horse like U.D. when they have an alternative winning horse in ITG who clearly does care about us collectors and wants us to get what we paid for. I've had the pleasure of meeting Dr. Price and upon meeting him you just know. You just know that he gets it, he gets us as collectors. I think that has to come from him being one himself. You come away from talking to the good Dr. Price and you look at his cards in your personal collections and feel quite secure in the knowledge that they are, without a doubt, the real deal.
I believe that the NHL & NHLPA in partnership with Upper Deck are all guilty of overlooking a basic fact in business. The lack of competitiveness in any business model breeds complacency and a lack of motivation to be the best. In the absence of a competitive marketplace, the drive, the ambition, to be the best is replaced with just getting by without a suitable challenger. Maybe the reckoning is coming and someone in the NHL or the NHLPA will heed the warning bells. I do hope so. As collectors we should all hope so. -Mike
slckrsx
Registered Trader
All about the benjamins.
holygoalie
Verified Trader ,
Yeah, I know. But I guess I also hold out hope the the NHL and the PA would actually do what's right for us as collectors.I suppose I, along with my fellow collectors who feel the same as I, can dream.
.
RGM81
Verified Trader
Sure, and while we're at it let's hope our favourite players will take less money to re-sign with our favourite teams when their current contracts expire.
bprice
Lurker
If board members want to start another thread about licensing I would be glad to give you my thoughts. This thread started out about a Lynn Patrick Autograph and has transcended away from that topic.
I would love to discuss the licensing situation as I see but in another thread and let this one get back to the Patrick Family.
Brian Price
In The Game
I would love to discuss the licensing situation as I see but in another thread and let this one get back to the Patrick Family.
Brian Price
In The Game
