according to other site panini joins the NHL License

To further Bruces comments,

Brian, you can be sure that the west coast HI contingent has and always will be pro ITG. Just on my quick count the "twelve buck mafia" members will be busting upwards of 15 cases of BTP at this weekends show. We appreciate you and your teams hard work and long hours to provide us with quality choices for our hobby dollars.

This year 90% of my hobby dollar went to ITG and it will continue to be that way until you stop making cards.

Thanks for your continued efforts, JZ
 
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On a more positive note, unless there is specific language in the agreements stating that Upper Deck and Panini are the only licensees, the NHL and NHLPA could add additional licensees at any time going forward. There may still be a chance that ITG could obtain a license down the road.
 
meatmancgy said:
Complete and utter lip service. I have sent several emails & letters to them discussing our displeasure with the exclusive (which potentially they heard) but also the collectors' views on ITG and Topps as well.

The poll we conducted last month was also included in those letters... the poll that showed that only 1.23% of collectors wanted a joint UD/Panini license. That poll that showed that a three-license grouping of UD/ITG & either Topps or Panini would appeal to 45.77% of collectors. That poll that showed almost 87% of voters wanted ITG involved in some way.
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I knew you took on the project of gathering opinions and information and relaying it very well, Bruce. So when you confirm that it's complete and utter lip service there becomes no doubt in my mind.

This is a sad day for hockey and hockey cards, if you ask me. Very simple minded are the NHL and NHLPA.
 
Competition, huh? With Score coming back into the mix?!?! Seriously?

I can't wait for more authentic 'rookie photo-shoot' jerseys and 'hofer-event-worn' memorabilia, not to mention all the awesome redemptions! Sweeet... [** end sarcasm ** - Wait! before I end the sarcasm, who wants to bet that 2010-11 Score Hockey features an insert set of rookies styled after the 90-91 Score Draft Picks sub-set? That would be soooo innovative! - Ok, now ** end sarcasm **]

I don't mean to be so negative, but, I'm sorry, I just don't see where the competition will come from, I see dilution (with both companies just firing out more of their 'established' brands)... in an already pretty dilute market. Of course, nothing has been mentioned yet about number of releases... so... should we expect ~15 each? I guess it'll be nice to get box prices back down under $50 in the weeks following a release...

Dr. Price, I implore you not to sell to either 'licensed' companies. I've only been an ITG collector for the last year, but have quickly learned you are head-and-shoulders above the others. I will continue to spend my budget on the 'exclusive' non-licensed hockey manufacturer!
 
hatzosman6 said:
1) How many products will each company be allowed to release? Upper Deck has been somewhere around 20 products for the past few seasons. If the NHL/NHLPA want to watch the market collapse under its own weight, they'll let both companies do the same and watch us end up with 40. A smart licensing agreement might limit things to, say, 12 products per company. I have little faith that is actually the case.
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Try 30+ products UD produces each year.

You're absolute right. We may be back to 60+ products a year again. Which, by the way, at the first UD "summit meeting" at the Expo a few years ago, UD stated that was one reason for an exclusive (not that they used the term at the time) and that that would make the hobby stronger.

30 products is too much. Now what's going to happen?

In any case, we don't know the details yet.
 
Interestingly, I got an email from Adam Larry of the NHLPA this morning asking when we could chat. Whether this is a "the decision's been made, quit badgering us" or a "the decision's been made, now... what do collectors really want" discussion is yet to be determined.

I will do my best to convey our collective disappointment of ITG being shut out of even applying for a license, as well as the extreme concerns over stick autographs, redemptions and the like.

Of course... that's assuming he actually CALLS.
 
Fred Bear said:
I just don't see where the competition will come from, I see dilution (with both companies just firing out more of their 'established' brands)... in an already pretty dilute market. Of course, nothing has been mentioned yet about number of releases... so... should we expect ~15 each?
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That is the question. But if it's business as usual for UD and the same business licenced to Panini then further dilution in an already diluted market is what we'll get. Let's hope it's not that bad.

Fred Bear said:
Dr. Price, I implore you not to sell to either 'licensed' companies.
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I would respect Brian's decision provided that he retains full creative control. (No chance he'll sell to UD... up to him if Panini would ever be an option)
 
bprice said:
For the public record.

We were never offered a license, so it was not a matter of not offering enough money.

We made our presentations and got NO follow up.

You decide if their intentions were honorable.

Brian Price
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forget all the presentations, business models, and game plans. try a simpler approach and speak in the NHL/PA's language. send another email simply stating that you heard the good news that they are licensing and that you are sitting there with a blank check and you need to know the amount to fill out for the license. getting someone on the phone would be even better.
 
FrankToronto said:
Which, by the way, at the first UD "summit meeting" at the Expo a few years ago, UD stated that was one reason for an exclusive (not that they used the term at the time) and that that would make the hobby stronger.
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To any collector with a shred of intelligence, the flawed logic of this argument will be readily apparent. Fewer products only makes the hobby stronger if there is competition between manufacturers. One manufacturer producing their entire line of products only results in the net effect of fewer products overall by essentially breaking the entire system first.

To a licensor looking to maximize profits, the logic is completely different. More products produced = more revenue = higher licensing fees. The licensors are not interested in what is best for the collector. Frankly, I'd wager the exclusive has only ended because Upper Deck no longer has the ability to fork over the cash that would be required for such a licensing agreement.
 
meatmancgy said:
Interestingly, I got an email from Adam Larry of the NHLPA this morning asking when we could chat. Whether this is a "the decision's been made, quit badgering us" or a "the decision's been made, now... what do collectors really want" discussion is yet to be determined.

I will do my best to convey our collective disappointment of ITG being shut out of even applying for a license, as well as the extreme concerns over stick autographs, redemptions and the like.

Of course... that's assuming he actually CALLS.
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Bruce i definately look forward to hearing about this conversation
 
vegaspuck said:
Collectors wanted another hockey card option. You got it. So why complain before their first packs have even hit the market?
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2 reasons I can see in this thread:
1) They wanted another option, but they wanted to choose it. The general vibe seems to be that they were ignored.
2) Panini's offerings in basketball (as I understand it) have failed to make a great first impression.


However, I think your previous remark that ITG ought to speak with Panini while they're feeling spendy is a point very well taken.
 
vegaspuck said:
[conspiracy theory]

Maybe the NHL or NHLPA just doesn't want to give Brian a license. Knowing he's been in production during the entire exclusive and making money off of NHL players past and present by using loopholes and paying individual players and not the union and not having to pay anything for any league licensing. While collectors find it a creative workaround, maybe the PA and League saw it as an attack at their exclusive agreement with their partner and hoped no one would try to compete with it. Maybe now they're getting back at ITG by not granting them a shot. Unless bridges were burned along the way, I really don't see why they shouldn't give ITG a shot at some sets.

[/conspiracy theory]
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The only people the NHL and the PA have to blame for ITG making money are themselves. They cost THEMSELVES money and now want to "punish" ITG by doing the same thing again?

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result.

You know, just like opening UD (and now Panini) wax. You know you're gonna get hammered, but you keep doing it anyway.

83 days sane, and much better off for it.

Enjoy the stickers fellas... you're gonna be seeing a TON of them.
 
quincy said:
2 reasons I can see in this thread:
1) They wanted another option, but they wanted to choose it. The general vibe seems to be that they were ignored.
2) Panini's offerings in basketball (as I understand it) have failed to make a great first impression.


However, I think your previous remark that ITG ought to speak with Panini while they're feeling spendy is a point very well taken.
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who does the they consist of? from what i understand, collectors on the forums are just a small (yet vocal) portion of the collecting public. the 'silent majority' must be speaking louder with their dollars and cents.
 
To celebrate, I'm going to buy as many boxes of Between the Pipes that I can find. And then after that, Superlative, and then after that Ultimate 10, and then Heroes and Prospects, and then...well, you get the idea.
 
Although I'm not shocked that ITG didn't get a last second chance, it truly saddens me (and obviously many others) that Brian's team wasn't brought to the table.

I can't help but draw a parallel in some twisted way to ITG and Jim Ballsillie. They both simply wanted to do the right thing, and every fan was pulling for them. This wouldn't be the place to air it out but there must be more to this than meets the eye. The NHL as well as the PA are all about money/revenue. Perhaps the other two brands are more recognizable/promotable on the larger scale? Whatever the reason is, be it realistic or not, the outcome still stinks.

Bruce, you need someone beside you in a meeting, let me know :mad:

Glenn
 
I am also pleased to see an end to the exclusive, but extremely saddened that ITG is not, at least at this point, once of the licensed companies. Bruce, if there is anything I can assist with, in regards to conversations with the NHLPA, please let mer know.

I currently put about 90-95% of my hobby money towards ITG cards and that will absolutely be continuing. I will be looking forward to my case of BTP and ITG's future products.
Daniel
 
I'm just wondering how Panini will survive when UD has exclusive contracts with Yzerman, Howe, Gretzky, Crosby, Ovechkin, Orr etc. At least with Basketball they had Kobe Bryant Autos to insert, whose gonna be their spokesman?
 
Hmm, what to think. First of all, I'm disappointed that ITG was ignored. Anyone who has seen my previous posts understands that I've been a big ITG fan before the lockout and knows I will continue to gear my buying habits with ITG strongly in mind, especially with Heroes and Prospects.

If we do have two companies, what would I like to see? First of all, I hope not to see a large number of high end products, I don't need to see both compancies producing something where the MSRP exceeds $250 per pack. I would like to see OPC continue to be produced with a 500 non-RC base cards, and would like to see Panini produce one with at least 400, as I still run across players who have been on the NHL level for 3+ years without a card made in the last three years. I'm curious to see what happens with the RC situation, as Upper Deck has wisely held back some rookies to be produced during the following season, but can they do that anymore in a competitive market? It should be interesting to say the least, to watch if not necessarily to purchase.

Ryan
 
KJ555 said:
I'm just wondering how Panini will survive when UD has exclusive contracts with Yzerman, Howe, Gretzky, Crosby, Ovechkin, Orr etc. At least with Basketball they had Kobe Bryant Autos to insert, whose gonna be their spokesman?
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Dont forget Mario Lemieux now also
 

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