UD's Response to the Distribution Changes

[mully]

i suppose all you brick and mortar stores are in agreement with the elimination of steve longo(wax on wheels) for those of you who don't know him or can't picture him,he is the wax and supplies distributour who has the cage in the middle of the expo. he has been a role model and class act for eons,you couldn't ask for a nicer guy to promote the hobby and now mr vatri says thanks for your support but we don't need you any more.

 

[Triple B]

I can't wait to see dealers screwing with each other over...one shop (A) buys from another shop (B) and sells to a non-shop owner and UD traces the boxes back to the unsuspecting shop (B) who then gets his ability to sell boxes pulled and the first shop (A) laughs his *** off.

I don't think ITG will lose any business. They'll be with the rest of us watching the gong show unfurl no doubt with the same quizzical look as the rest of us.

 

[DougLaurieSports]

We already have the issue of collusion between the 2 major distributors in Canada. Whenever a product is deemed "hot", it's the same song and dance:

1- They allocate to buyers even though they demand pre-orders on EVERY product saying they didn't get enough from UD

2- Within days, they announce that they have miraculously found more BUT the price has gone up significantly

3- In order for you to be "eligible" to pre-order more of a "hot" product, you must buy a bunch of crappy stuff they have sitting on the shelves

I am extremely afraid these new changes will only make matters worse, not better

I'm not sure who you are dealing with, but I've never been asked to do #3. I will agree that if I want more of The Cup, I have to buy more lower-tier stuff, but I think that only makes sense.

i suppose all you brick and mortar stores are in agreement with the elimination of steve longo(wax on wheels) for those of you who don't know him or can't picture him,he is the wax and supplies distributour who has the cage in the middle of the expo. he has been a role model and class act for eons,you couldn't ask for a nicer guy to promote the hobby and now mr vatri says thanks for your support but we don't need you any more.

I know and like Steve, but I believe he's also one of the guys selling Upper Deck Series I hobby boxes below our cost at the Expo every fall. This doesn't wipe him out -- it means if he isn't a UD authorized dealer, he can't sell new product.

I'm sorry for how this affects you, Mully, and when I see the UD reps in Vegas in a couple of weeks, I'm going to make a case for your situation to be revisited. But my heart does not bleed for guys who do not have a physical location.

I'm curious why all of you think UD (and perhaps Panini) are attempting to institute these policies. It obviously isn't to garner favour with customers or distributors, and it's certainly isn't to make their own lives easier. Is it possible they think it's obviously going to make them more money, and that it (gasp!) might be better in the long run for the hobby?

 

[Maple Leaf Sports]

I find it quite humorous that people who don't have a B&M store are up in arms over this.

It's quite simple: change the existing distribution model to ensure the long term survival of the hobby (and hobby stores). Or that's it. It'll be eBay and Blowout/D&A and nothing else.

 

[mully]

i don't want to argue with you on the luongo situation at the expo, but it is my belief that steve walks the floor and price matches whatever he sees, he feels he owes it to the public and his customers that he can match prices for 2 weekends a year,it was to his surprise that grosnor was supplying a certain dealer there that was selling far below all other dealers prices (consignment)
i appreciate the good word and thought wayne,but if you are going to say something don't say it for me, you know i have the diversity to stay in business.say it for the 100's of customers who don't have a store within their able range, say something about the 1000's of good guys across america they are eliminating as they move forward with this and lastly say it only if you mean it , unfortunatley in my circumstance,(no stores within a 20 mile radius) it's the customers that come out on the loosing end,they will be forced to quit.

 

[qwas]

For the past many years I have had to rely on online sales for my collecting habits because there is no hobby store within two and a half hours of where I live. Even 7/11 quit carrying cards.

 

[DougLaurieSports]

Mully, given what UD costs with the GST added, the prices being charged at the Expo were at or below cost. I have no idea why someone could be able to sell at that cost, and why they would want to. All I know is that it does me no favours, and in the long run, I don't believe it does the hobby any favours either.

For the past many years I have had to rely on online sales for my collecting habits because there is no hobby store within two and a half hours of where I live. Even 7/11 quit carrying cards.

I may be wishing, but I think with these changes more people might actually be to run hobby shops.

 

[mully]

i don't know why either wayne,but lets say you show up at the expo and the guy next to you has his singles at 60 % off and you have the exact same at 50% off, you must make a descision do i match his or do i hope he sells out quickly,then i'm laughing. point is people react different at any given time and we all have moved something below cost before,but do we or he(longo) do it all the time ,no,it's really unfair to judge a person based on one weekend

lets just say that the real reason longo is being eliminated is because grossnor has been after his accounts for years and we all know the relationship vatri has with dave yates

 

[DougLaurieSports]

Mully, sorry, but I can't answer in respect to rumours and innuendo. I can say I have no idea what the relationship would be between Vatri and Yates, aside from Yates' company buys a whackload of product from the company that employs Vatri. I'm also not sure how Steve would be "eliminated" except for selling the most recent product, and heck, if he's selling it at or below cost, it won't be a loss, right?

As for singles, it's possible the guy next to me made a better deal in buying his than I did, more power to him. According to the way buying UD is set up in Canada, it doesn't really appear that can happen here. It's possible Steve gets an incredible discount from Grosnor for buying huge quantities, but if that were true, why would Grosnor be after his accounts? It wouldn't seem it would mean much difference to them and they'd be losing someone they know pays his bills.

This also isn't a reaction -- it happens at every single Expo. That's not Steve's fault, but it's not right.

 

[Fred Bear]

I find it quite humorous that people who don't have a B&M store are up in arms over this.

It's quite simple: change the existing distribution model to ensure the long term survival of the hobby (and hobby stores). Or that's it. It'll be eBay and Blowout/D&A and nothing else.

I don't find it humorous at all, especially that brick-and-mortar shop owners are unwilling to see that all this program does is block their visibility of what is going to continue to happen.

I would agree with changing the distribution model, but not in this way. The manufacturer has the right to first sale of their product, they can sell to whomever they choose (direct shops and distributors) at whatever price they set. They should focus their efforts there. I have a problem with them dictating the dynamics of the second sale and beyond because that creates a false, unsustainable secondary market. Not to mention that, in most business, a manufacturer has no rights to second sale - 'the market' does.

Look at it this way...

Does the below-cost sale of a case of Ultimate Collection to a customer in a card shop in South Carolina bother or upset shop owners in Canada or California? Probably not, because he most likely doesn't know about it and neither do his customers.

Does the below-cost sale of two cases of Ultimate Collection to a collector at the Toronto Expo upset shop owners in Canada with booths at the Expo? Probably, because it happened right in front of them and the collector told his friends who told their friends and so on.

UD is trying to eliminate #2, not #1. They can't set prices but they can try to monitor who sells their product. Where, it will affect collectors is on sites like this where we 'share' information. The incentive switches from sharing to keeping 'deals' to yourself.

Another question...

Do brick-and-mortar shops have a problem with someone selling a box of cards (cost - $75 for example) for $125 on eBay? Probably not, but remember these opportunities are eliminated, even for 'authorized' sellers until after 90 days. Why don't manufacturers focus on producing these types of products?

I just hope trying to control information doesn't consume the manufacturers when they should be producing solid products.

 

[frankiefives]

I find it quite humorous that people who don't have a B&M store are up in arms over this.

It's quite simple: change the existing distribution model to ensure the long term survival of the hobby (and hobby stores). Or that's it. It'll be eBay and Blowout/D&A and nothing else.

I don't have a B&M store and to clarify, I support BOTH LCS's in my area. I get most of my wax from them. Why? Because I believe they deserve my business and I prefer to keep them alive and well. I'm just not convinced this whole thing will benefit B&M stores in Canada. All this will do is give even MORE power to the 2 major distributors in Canada.

 

[oasis]

We already have the issue of collusion between the 2 major distributors in Canada. Whenever a product is deemed "hot", it's the same song and dance:

1- They allocate to buyers even though they demand pre-orders on EVERY product saying they didn't get enough from UD

2- Within days, they announce that they have miraculously found more BUT the price has gone up significantly

3- In order for you to be "eligible" to pre-order more of a "hot" product, you must buy a bunch of crappy stuff they have sitting on the shelves

I am extremely afraid these new changes will only make matters worse, not better

that is not resident to just Canadian distributors , southern Hobby one of UD's chosen folks is notorious for that exact same ploy.

 

[Stadium Sports]

I don't have a B&M store and to clarify, I support BOTH LCS's in my area. I get most of my wax from them. Why? Because I believe they deserve my business and I prefer to keep them alive and well. I'm just not convinced this whole thing will benefit B&M stores in Canada. All this will do is give even MORE power to the 2 major distributors in Canada.

Frank - I understand your thoughts but from someone looking outward, I do not see how this makes Universal or Grosnor anymore powerful.

Prince is not an "Authorized UD Distributor" now but they still manage to "find" UD products for their customers. Sure, they can not supply it on or for release date but they have it next day.

Prince is listed as an "Authorized Distributor" for Panini and same with ITG.

I don't see how anything will change really.

 

[oasis]

Folks, in case this hasnt been pointed out yet, this is a capitalist market we live in, supply and demand, guns and roses, pay what the market will bear, pay thru the nose, etc etc etc.. Business can do what it wants in a sense except anything our collective governments may deem monopolistic. AND THIS IS NOT MONOPOLISTIC. Its a company attempting to tie up some loose ends in its logisitics. Sure it is capitalism in the finest sense, if demand surpasses supply then we want more of a share of the money and if supply exceeds demand ..well thats not on us but after 90 days you can do what you want.

Our Brick & Mortars, listen to us the "demand" part of the equation and then take care of the "supply", They, at least, are not being forced to take a specified allocation of so many cases of every product, to order the one we want, and that is a good thing.

Capitalism = profit = good business = our economies going onward and upward. Think of this. You buy a box at the LCS for $100.00 and LCS makes $10.00 and he doesnt have to carry inventory. Distrubutor Southern sell box to LCS and made $10.00 and yet they have all the carrying cost of the SUPPLY! UD sold the case to Southern for $120.00 profit to them (assuming a 12 box case). Some company printed all that for UD and packaged it for a profit, Some company created the paper and the ink for a profit, some company is using LABOR to create individual income! So you paid a markup of 30% on a box of trading cards to feed the cycle!

Whats the big hairy deal?

In my opinion a 3 page discussion on HI regarding something completely out of your change zone is, well, a waste of effort. Accept the things you cannot change and change the things you cannot accept!

You know you/I are not going to change our Hobby and the habits that come with it. So why bother pretending that we are!

 

[Rraincock]

... I am still trying to get my mind wrapped around this....

 

[blindros88]

While this plan may not be a Monopoly, it is in my opinion dangerously close to violating other provisions of American Anti-trust law.If I had the cash flow and the support staff I would be chomping at the bit to represent the first Hobby Shop or other business owner that gets 'removed' from the program. If Upper Deck dictates who can and cannot receive product from the third party distributors that looks and smells like a conspiracy not to deal to me, which is a violation of US Anti-trust law, last time I checked.

Regardless of the potential illegalities of this plan, I see this as nothing more than added costs to the collectors. Guess who gets to pay for all this 'extra supervision'? Collectors.

So, to everyone that already complains of kicks to the junk after box breaks, better fet the ice ready, it's about to get a whole lot worse.

 

[frankiefives]

Frank - I understand your thoughts but from someone looking outward, I do not see how this makes Universal or Grosnor anymore powerful.

Prince is not an "Authorized UD Distributor" now but they still manage to "find" UD products for their customers. Sure, they can not supply it on or for release date but they have it next day.

Prince is listed as an "Authorized Distributor" for Panini and same with ITG.

I don't see how anything will change really.

Because now NO ONE in Canada will have access to wax from the US wholesalers. I've actually been able to get my hands on cases several times for under the B&M stores' cost with the capacity of having it in hand day of release. With that option being gone, the Canadian distributors will hold ALL the cards (no pun intended)

 

[bkrysko]

This can't end well........

 

[DICESARE]

Why didn't they come out with this at the begging of the hockey season ? You support them by buying products like Victory all during the hockey season ? Now that SPA ,Ultimate & The Cup , the best products of the year are the only products left ,they cut you off.

 

[GrimUSMC]

Folks, in case this hasnt been pointed out yet, this is a capitalist market we live in, supply and demand, guns and roses, pay what the market will bear, pay thru the nose, etc etc etc.. Business can do what it wants in a sense except anything our collective governments may deem monopolistic. AND THIS IS NOT MONOPOLISTIC. Its a company attempting to tie up some loose ends in its logisitics. Sure it is capitalism in the finest sense, if demand surpasses supply then we want more of a share of the money and if supply exceeds demand ..well thats not on us but after 90 days you can do what you want.

Our Brick & Mortars, listen to us the "demand" part of the equation and then take care of the "supply", They, at least, are not being forced to take a specified allocation of so many cases of every product, to order the one we want, and that is a good thing.

Capitalism = profit = good business = our economies going onward and upward. Think of this. You buy a box at the LCS for $100.00 and LCS makes $10.00 and he doesnt have to carry inventory. Distrubutor Southern sell box to LCS and made $10.00 and yet they have all the carrying cost of the SUPPLY! UD sold the case to Southern for $120.00 profit to them (assuming a 12 box case). Some company printed all that for UD and packaged it for a profit, Some company created the paper and the ink for a profit, some company is using LABOR to create individual income! So you paid a markup of 30% on a box of trading cards to feed the cycle!

Whats the big hairy deal?

In my opinion a 3 page discussion on HI regarding something completely out of your change zone is, well, a waste of effort. Accept the things you cannot change and change the things you cannot accept!

You know you/I are not going to change our Hobby and the habits that come with it. So why bother pretending that we are!

I agree with your point about a capitalist market, but thats about it. In a capitalist market, I can sell something I own for whatever I want, period. The market dictates what someone will pay. I just sold Phillies Red Sox Tickets for $105 (online) that I only paid $32 for, thats my prerogative. Thats capitalism.

This will effect their wax sales because they will remove many lower cost sellers. Now instead of someone buying three boxes of something, they may buy 1 or 2. Run that over many products and many many people. This is not aimed at major case crackers. They will never go away until the cards become worthless again (see late 90's). This is aimed at gouging average Joe out of another $10 or so a box.

And lastly, the sense of entitlement from shop owners is a little disturbing. Just because you own a physical store does not give you any more rights then someone operating a storefront on ebay or another internet site. I personally would much rather have a reliable good LCS to go to, as they are much more trustworthy and really bring out what the hobby is, but it doesnt give them any more rights then anyone else.