UD's Response to the Distribution Changes

and Grim who are they hurting??

themselves!

I didnt say it was a good decision on UD's part just one we are going to have to accept for the time being!

Their quest for the almighty secondary market dollar has exposed their greed. After all what products did they sell recently have gone up in value due to consumer demand Where they may make a buck or two ?
 
oasis said:
and Grim who are they hurting??

themselves!

I didnt say it was a good decision on UD's part just one we are going to have to accept for the time being!

Their quest for the almighty secondary market dollar has exposed their greed. After all what products did they sell recently have gone up in value due to consumer demand Where they may make a buck or two ?
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Please forgive my misread of your post, lol. I am still recovering from watching the Flyers getting their heads kicked in :beer:

And I definitely agree with you.
 
GrimUSMC said:
I agree with your point about a capitalist market, but thats about it. In a capitalist market, I can sell something I own for whatever I want, period. The market dictates what someone will pay. I just sold Phillies Red Sox Tickets for $105 (online) that I only paid $32 for, thats my prerogative. Thats capitalism.

This will effect their wax sales because they will remove many lower cost sellers. Now instead of someone buying three boxes of something, they may buy 1 or 2. Run that over many products and many many people. This is not aimed at major case crackers. They will never go away until the cards become worthless again (see late 90's). This is aimed at gouging average Joe out of another $10 or so a box.

And lastly, the sense of entitlement from shop owners is a little disturbing. Just because you own a physical store does not give you any more rights then someone operating a storefront on ebay or another internet site. I personally would much rather have a reliable good LCS to go to, as they are much more trustworthy and really bring out what the hobby is, but it doesnt give them any more rights then anyone else.
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I think this is price fixing. Suggested retail price is exactly what it says it is. Suggested. UD is controlling who buys what and at what price. That is not capitalistic. I dont think they will stop distributors from increasing prices on "hot " products. So it is to increase the floor or lowest price of the product.

This is 2011, loyalty is not what it once was. Many consumers such as my self dont have time to go to the LCS thus buy online primarily. I have long stopped busting wax. This is a hobby for me so i will pick and choose where i spend and with whom. Online businesses should be treated the same as b&m. Just b/c no physical location its still a business. Every industry has online merchants.
I have a question for the dealers on here, do you have an online presence? If you dont why? I am curious.

Lastly, to solve this problem, get rid of the middlemen!! (Distributors control way too much in this world)
 
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I think that this is pure and utter crap. UD is putting far too much effort into this type of nonsense when they should probably focus on getting their past due redemption's out the door. I can see that the expo is going to fall apart if there is not a good amount of cheap wax, singles will not keep it afloat.

This whole situation can't end well for anyone and I can see this really pushing more people out of this hobby.
 
GrimUSMC said:
And lastly, the sense of entitlement from shop owners is a little disturbing. Just because you own a physical store does not give you any more rights then someone operating a storefront on ebay or another internet site. I personally would much rather have a reliable good LCS to go to, as they are much more trustworthy and really bring out what the hobby is, but it doesnt give them any more rights then anyone else.
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In the Denver metro area there are at least a couple shops that attempt to "compete" with the online sellers. By that, I mean they charge approx 10% more than the big online sellers on new product. Now add sales tax, which for most metro area Counties approaches 9%.

I'll paraphase a conversation between what would have to be considered a "fringe" customer and shop owner a few months backs.

Customer: "Wow, you have 2010 Topps Football at 39.99 a box"

Shop Owner: "Yeah, the product has gotten really cheap"

Customer: "Man, I'm going to have to order me a case online"

When the State figures out how to properly collect "Use Taxes" for online purchases, maybe the momentum will shift back to the card shops, but until then it's pretty hard to compete whe you're already 19% in the hole.
 
Maple Leaf Sports said:
I find it quite humorous that people who don't have a B&M store are up in arms over this.

It's quite simple: change the existing distribution model to ensure the long term survival of the hobby (and hobby stores). Or that's it. It'll be eBay and Blowout/D&A and nothing else.
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I'm afraid I have to agree with this sentiment.
 
frankiefives said:
Because now NO ONE in Canada will have access to wax from the US wholesalers. I've actually been able to get my hands on cases several times for under the B&M stores' cost with the capacity of having it in hand day of release. With that option being gone, the Canadian distributors will hold ALL the cards (no pun intended)
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And that is EXACTLY the problem that I think Upper Deck is trying to address!!
If my customers can 'get there hands on' cases for less than I as a direct account can get them, how do I pay my bills?????
 
puckfan16 said:
And that is EXACTLY the problem that I think Upper Deck is trying to address!!
If my customers can 'get there hands on' cases for less than I as a direct account can get them, how do I pay my bills?????
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I had access to it at a cheaper rate than the Canadian distributor's cost, not less than direct dealers in the US. In Canada, we get screwed. They charge us an exchange rate even when the dollar is at par. Add to that the collusion between the 2 big distributors and you'll realize that the end consumer pays about 20% more for wax here than in the US
 
frankiefives said:
I had access to it at a cheaper rate than the Canadian distributor's cost, not less than direct dealers in the US. In Canada, we get screwed. They charge us an exchange rate even when the dollar is at par. Add to that the collusion between the 2 big distributors and you'll realize that the end consumer pays about 20% more for wax here than in the US
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Fair enough Frankie,
however the point remains the same, it happens all too frequently here in the U.S. that the online retailers are 'blowing out' product at rates that are similar to my direct cost and exactly the same as my distributor cost. Makes it tough to make a profit and pay the bills if my customers can buy direct at my cost so I'm open to trying this with Upper Deck and Panini.

I used to work for a very large retailer of sunglasses and in order for us to carry the Oakley brand, my company had to sign an 'agreement' that we would NEVER discount their product in any way. No discount sales, no damaged discounts, and we were even forced to sell at a pre-determined 'manufacturers suggested retail price'.
As a result, the only competitive advantage my company had over any other company that sold Oakley sunglasses was our customer service. If that is the end result of this experiment by the card manufacturers, I don't see how we ALL don't win?
 
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puckfan16 said:
And that is EXACTLY the problem that I think Upper Deck is trying to address!!
If my customers can 'get there hands on' cases for less than I as a direct account can get them, how do I pay my bills?????
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Is it not like Walmart vs the small store, Walmart buys so much that their costs are much lower thus they can provide a lower cost to the consumer? (like DA blowout etc)

I would think people choose your shop because of the service , atmosphere and maybe singles.

Ud caused this themselves. Poor secondary sales or perceived value of box/case leads to people willing to pay less, which leads to lower volume thus decrease in sales etc etc. UD cant go from quantity to quality. They are not apple or LV that they can dictate prices.
What has led to decrease in value is the oversaturation of the market. How many crosby patch autos does one want. Set collecting is not what it once was, jerseys and even patches are lower in value. Its happened in all sports. Michael Jordan autographs are not valued what they once were. Too many on the market at one time.
Cant blame UD for trying this as the costs for them are the same or higher and the returns less. They may actually make it worse.
 
i don't know how to set this up on another post but how about we take a poll on this ,lets see how divided the h.i. members are on this issue.


wayne,i mentioned the relationship of yates(owner of grossnor) and vatri(canadian rep for u.deck) they owned a card store together back in the early 90's
 
cjkuehn said:
i've been told SPA is the last product that before the new policy
takes affect.

also, the opc update sets, have been cancelled.
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Could be but I find it coincidental that SPA was pushed back to April and the Vegas meetings are March 20th...

Didn't know OPC Update was cancelled. I wonder what prompted that decision

Stadium Sports said:
is that confirmed? I still have the 22nd as the date.
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I've been told April 7th
 
frankiefives said:
We all knew that when they first announced it would be released. Why have an update to a set that already had the big name rookies? I'm sure they had thought of all that before the announcement. My question now is, what prompted the cancellation?
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perhaps case breakers canceling their orders?
 
The_IceBox said:
Mully, sorry, but I can't answer in respect to rumours and innuendo. I can say I have no idea what the relationship would be between Vatri and Yates, aside from Yates' company buys a whackload of product from the company that employs Vatri. I'm also not sure how Steve would be "eliminated" except for selling the most recent product, and heck, if he's selling it at or below cost, it won't be a loss, right?

As for singles, it's possible the guy next to me made a better deal in buying his than I did, more power to him. According to the way buying UD is set up in Canada, it doesn't really appear that can happen here. It's possible Steve gets an incredible discount from Grosnor for buying huge quantities, but if that were true, why would Grosnor be after his accounts? It wouldn't seem it would mean much difference to them and they'd be losing someone they know pays his bills.

This also isn't a reaction -- it happens at every single Expo. That's not Steve's fault, but it's not right.
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Wayne,

Every year at the expo I am forced to compete with American wholesalers who bring their wax into Canada and undercut everybody in the room on everything. These are the same wholesalers who are still allowed to sell Upper Deck products and these are the same wholesalers who you all patronize at the show so you can have cheap wax for your stores. I am also surprised to see that it is usually Brick and Mortar stores who are the first to undercut my prices at the expo. Sure, because of my large presence it may appear like I am one of the perpetrators, but I just match prices, I don't set them. Everybody knows that it was a Brick and Mortar store, who will remain nameless, who was responsible for setting the below cost pricing on everything on his table at the expo last November, and then bragged how he was in control of setting the prices in this town and that he taught everyone a lesson. This store continues to be the top selling store in Toronto only because they sell everything cheap.

I do not sell wax below my cost, I make money on everything I sell, it may be below your cost, but that should not be my fault that you are paying too much for your product. I have many sources for wax all across North America; do you not think that it is possible for me to make a better deal than the guy next to me? More power to me, right?

Why is it okay to sell singles cheap but not wax? You go to a card show and every dealer there is selling cards at 40% to 60% off, but that is okay? I see guys with shoe boxes full of jersey cards selling for $1.00 to $5.00 each, granted they may not be the best cards, but they still guide for more than what they are selling them for.

As far as the remaining two distributors wanting my accounts, why wouldn't they? Once they eliminate guys like me, you will all be paying more for your product.
 
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Forcing hobby shop owners to hold product for a minimum 90 days is far too much to ask IMO. If product needs to get sold, it NEEDS to get sold - and if my business depends on the cash flow, I don't want Upper Deck telling me how long I have to hold inventory.

This is sketchy......:badmood:
 

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