UD's Response to the Distribution Changes

"Question – As a shop owner, what can I do if someone who is not in the program attempts to buy from me?

Answer – We are investing a lot of resources in tracking where product originates from that is sold online and through unauthorized channels. Shops bear responsibility in knowing their customers. Shops are expected to let buyers know they cannot sell boxes online or to other shops. This program is designed specifically to help shops grow their business so we expect our partners to take responsibility for how they sell Upper Deck products and who they sell it to. We all have to take some responsibility in order for this program to succeed."

Nice!!!Now UD is dictating to me as to what I may do with the product that I buy from their Authorized Retailers

Question – As a shop owner, what will happen if I choose not to sign this new agreement?

Answer – You will no longer be able to purchase new Upper Deck products direct or through our distributor network. Additionally, you will not be able to take part in the various programs we will be helping to support our brick & mortar store locations. Lastly, you will no longer receive product information and marketing support for new Upper Deck products and programs. And finally, if you choose not to be a Certified Diamond Dealer your customer’s purchases of Upper Deck products will not be covered by any “warranty” which will significantly limit their ability to receive customer service on issues like damages, collation, etc."

I can't wait for the first time that one of you is denied replacements for your damaged items because UD's Customer service believes that you bought the box you opened from an unauthorized Certified Diamond Dealer. I can see the howling already!!!

Seriously - if the store owners on these boards believe that this will be a windfall for their business, or help to stabilize what they believe is an uneven playing field .. good for them. I suggest you make triple sure that you do not own a single piece of inventory from a product AFTER the 90 day period....


Bruce
 
So the basic jist of what I read was the UD is now become a dictatorship of the hobby and if B&M stores dont like it...screw you. and if you as a customer purchased unopened product and its damaged you better have a reciept (and the box with the upc as well as the holo as I was asked for this for a previous quality control claim). I am just going to sit back and watch this three ring circus....
limiting purchasing by 90 day lock up of market....interesting approach...lmao
 
torquewrenchcharlie said:
and if you as a customer purchased unopened product and its damaged you better have a reciept (and the box with the upc as well as the holo as I was asked for this for a previous quality control claim).
Click to expand...


Oh - not only this......
But you as a consumer - must have purchased the card through an "authorized Certified Diamond Dealer".

So what Upper Deck is trying to tell you is that YOU (the consumer) must ALSO be certain from whom you are buying your product...... or they will not service you.

You know what UD - that works with Apple Ipods and kitchen appliances like Maytag, but even Mercedes and BMW will take care of defects in our $100,000 automobiles without making us prove we bought the item from a Certified Dealer and not a third party. I, as the consumer, am not responsible for tracking your distribution lines.


Hmm lets see how this is going to go????
Mike, CJ, Bruce - who else wants to add their names to the list???

I can tell you one thing :
There are a whole lot of hobby guys who do not need much more of a reason to stop cracking product. But do not worry - the stores will be able to make up the lost volume - because 'if you want the product - you will have to buy it from them!".


Sorry, but my Econ degree tells me there is something wrong with the UD premise.

Bruce
 
Question – What about show dealers, will they be able to get your product?

Answer – This is a work in progress. We will be revealing more detail of this aspect of the program in the coming weeks, but I can certainly tell you that in order to sell at any show you will have to be a Certified Diamond Dealer which means you will need to be a full time shop owner.
Click to expand...
I can picture a guy running around shows with an Upper Deck badge demanding to know where every show dealer got their product, and whether or not they own a B&M shop. I hope is name is Mr. Cardman.


Question – Will Upper Deck be monitoring auction sites like eBay for sales of boxed products?

Answer – Yes. That doesn’t mean you will no longer see current Upper Deck boxes available on eBay, but there will likely be much less available there for new Upper Deck products. Upper Deck will actively be purchasing product through these channels as well and tracking it back from there. Partners found in violation of the agreement will be removed from the program. Make sure that when you buy sealed product on eBay or an online site for that matter, you look for the Authorized Internet Retailer logo.
Click to expand...

So they will be going out of their way to buy "questionable" product on eBay, track the said product back to an individual distributor or shop, and pull them from the program. A little much, no?

This seems like way too much control over an industry that needs breathing room to function well. I also can't wait to see what happens when someone is denied customer service because the box was purchased from "illegal" sources, whether the customer knew it or not.
 
Last edited:
This business model is exactly what the RIAA and MPAA are gunning for.

Regardless, it really doesn't matter what we say here. Ultimately the only thing that will make a difference in the long term is money - more specifically, an interruption of the steady flow of moolah into UD coffers. Whether that happens or not remains to be seen.

In the meantime, should you find yourself at odds with UD's practices, may I offer that we have two reasonable alternatives for your hobby dollars?
 
So if I go buy a couple boxes from a B&M store and decide I don't want the second box anymore and sell it on ebay, they card store I bought them from can get in trouble?

Am I reading that right or am I missing someting?
 
Those two organizations are only concerned with one thing - getting their respective royalties. They do not care where the royalties come from - only that they get paid on each and every sale. There are no issues with Customer Service or with discounters of product, they could care less as long as they get their due.

Hard to compare that model to UD proposal.
You are correct that - much like their last misguided attempt - falling sales will kill this goose egg quickly. After all - Upper Deck's coffers are not exactly over-flowing at the moment.


I know that one alternative is to buy the items you want from various venues (HI - Ebay etc). However for some of us - the act of breaking has been an integral part of the hobby. What are you suggestiong for the second alternative???
 
I think the big issue here is an attempt to stop the product dumping by the guys who buy up a ton of cases of everything so they can get the best stuff. Those guys sell off cases at cost or below does not good for anyone except case crackers -- and sorry, I don't have any sympathy for them having to pay higher prices.

As for other channels, I believe Steve was referring to ITG and Panini. However, I would be surprised if Panini didn't institute a similar policy in the coming months.

There's an excellent reason for UD to require a receipt for the purchase of a box -- the number of jerks buying cards at shops, shows and online and then sending them back in for replacements. I suggested this route three years ago to UD, and I'm glad to see them taking it.

As for the "OMGLOLWTFI'MGONNASTOPBUYING" routine, come on. With everything this hobby has been through in the past few years, do you really think this is going to stop people from buying and cracking wax? If a few of the massive case crackers stop, in my view that's good. Again, it might mean fewer people simply dumping out of the cases they open and a better secondary market.
 
The model they want is approved content, in approved formats, in approved players, on approved viewers. Every inch of the process is under their scrutiny and tithes to them accordingly. With the sort of tracking and tracing that seems inherent in this new model by UD - i.e. approved distributors, to approved dealers, via approved sales channels - the homology is sufficient for me to call them operationally identical.

The object remains the same, to maximize revenue and eliminate all sales which do not result in revenue for THEM.


Edit: Wayne, that IS what I intended in my previous post. And I agree fully - the hobby could do with a few less massive pallet crackers.
 
Based on these answers, though. UD isn't trying to stop product dumping.

Question – Is Upper Deck setting a price that Authorized Distributors, Certified Diamond Dealers or Authorized Internet Retailers can sell products at?
Answer – No. Upper Deck cannot set a price on what products are sold at.
Click to expand...

How does this stop any product dumping? It might stop 'advertised' product dumping (since a shop can't use eBay or internet in the first 90 days), but I'm sure a couple of phone calls will put a motivated cracker into a boatload of cheap product that UD is never gonna care or know about. A number of large online retailers have brick-and-mortar shops and are eligible for 'authorized internet retailer' status anyways, so I wouldn't be surprised if the major 'problem' online guys even leave the game at all. It might stop them from selling cross-border, but I don't see how this forces a case-buster to buy locally or pay more for product. They might be able to track boxes, but tracking singles will be impossible (unless they plan to put a customer service issue in every box - maybe we have to supply a receipt with our redemptions making them completely unsellable).

A couple other things I found particularly 'interesting'...

Question – I’m a shop and if I purchase three cases of a product and can’t move two of them, what are my options for selling off the other two cases?
Answer – Shops will need to wait the 90 day period before they look to move product through alternate methods. Any shop found doing so before the 90 day period is subject to removal from the program. It is imperative that shops understand their needs and buy responsibly. Additionally, as an industry we need to get away from this sort of thinking. In what other industry do you plan where you are going to get rid of product before you even take possession of it? Let’s let the collector ultimately determine the fate of products!
Click to expand...

Aren't the manufacturers (and distributors) the ones who have instituted 'allocations' for top products based on previous bookings? They didn't say they were eliminating allocations, though. So, a brick-and-mortar shop will still get The Cup if they don't order Victory? Doubtful. What they are saying - you can't dump the two cases on eBay for 90 days, after 90 days UD doesn't care. By UD not 'fixing' a sale price, though, shops can sell it legitimately at cost in the first 90 days, your buyer just has to bust it or wait 90 days to sell the sealed boxes (unless he does it at a show UD's 'Hobby Enforcement Officer' isn't at or somewhere besides eBay)... Seems unenforceable legally speaking. [Note - There are actually some very good books on cash flow, inventory management, etc. It is actually considered 'responsible' business to plan how you will move product before you purchase and it arrives, some would call that 'standard practice'.]

Question – I’m a collector and I have been able to purchase through a distributor in the past. Is that going to change?
Answer – Yes. The job of our distributors is to help keep shelves stocked for our hobby shops and authorized internet retailers. Any of our distributors found selling to collectors will be removed from our distribution network. As a collector however, you will still have plenty of resources to purchase product.
Click to expand...

Shouldn't this read (I took a little creative license)...

Question - I'm a non-brick-and-mortar business who has been purchasing products legally through a distributor for the intent of resale. Is that going to change?
Answer - Yes. You can no longer buy UD (or Panini in May) products. We've notified you just in time for you to realize you will be locked out of The Cup no matter what your bookings have been this year on our products. Good luck with your business which will now be built around ITG and Topps. [Psst... Call D&A or Blowout and they should be able to give you a decent case price at release.]


The bottom line... I'm hopeful that this will help guys like Wayne and Stadium and others I don't know (i.e. the good shops), I really do. Based on what I've read of the explanation, though, I'm sad to see that either UD (and soon Panini) doesn't understand economically how the system they have created works unless there are a ton of hidden caveats, like a MAP only of online retailers, or they are really just providing this project a little lip service until it is discontinued.

[I'm also interested to see how many shops/distributors are ready to handle 90-day inventories. The distributor I have been using is on the list, but he is usually 'sold-out' after 2-3 weeks on new products. If he is now in charge of 'stocking and re-stocking' shops, seems like he's planning to carry to some serious inventory. Wonder how he'll get rid of it after 90-days...]
 
Just a load of bull from a company known for its questionably legal tactics.

I wonder if UD will force brick-and-mortar shop owners to put a UD flag in their store and sing some kind of UD anthem every morning.
 
thats good fred bear.you make a lot of good interesting points,i just hope if thier plan fails that they don't expect us all to come bouncing back waving our arms in the air, it has taken me years to build up my cliental and any disruption in service will kill it fast, i don't intend on being part of their " PLAN B" (oh we'll take you back now!!) when their project flops
 
just wonder if I open a pack and a card is damaged I have to keep the receipt and wrappers and everything from the store i bought it from???? Cause lord know the second I leave the store I usually chuck the receipt or tell them I dont need one when I buy said packs-boxes
 
We already have the issue of collusion between the 2 major distributors in Canada. Whenever a product is deemed "hot", it's the same song and dance:

1- They allocate to buyers even though they demand pre-orders on EVERY product saying they didn't get enough from UD

2- Within days, they announce that they have miraculously found more BUT the price has gone up significantly

3- In order for you to be "eligible" to pre-order more of a "hot" product, you must buy a bunch of crappy stuff they have sitting on the shelves

I am extremely afraid these new changes will only make matters worse, not better
 
Am I the only one that thinks there's a snowball's chance in Arizona that they ever TRY to enforce this? It reeks of Goliath trying to keep David down a little while longer.

Someone needs to tell UD that you catch more flies with honey.
 

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
390,147
Messages
2,238,869
Members
4,169
Latest member
Misso
Back
Top